Guilds

[Uthanatos]

I think a good solution would be a multistep process.

1.) Redefine the house to fit the guild, including the house/guild art (hereafter called the guild art for clarity).
2.) Limit guild arts to Sphere/Crests rounded down in plat. IE 1 house, 2 guilds=3 crests, at 9th sphere 90/3=30 So the guild art would be limited to 30 plat for that instance
3.) Turn guild arts into something with guild focus IE Trappers guild getting a version of trap that is more powerful than regular trap, whether it's rank+48 or 24+(rank*2)
4.) No access to house arts until the guild runs an RP to refocus the house to the guild, setting the guild art in place

With this, those who choose to be a part of a guild only, will have access to the more powerful version of the guild art and those who are part of houses will have a more limited version which would not too badly tip the balance. Since the guilds are not political structures within the city, it should be easy enough to develop a utility art for each that works off an existing art to minimize coding issues, copy/paste with a few variable changes. It'd be up to the GM sponsor of each guild to train the guild arts though, since players don't have true visibility into cresting and if a guild member were to join another faction after raising their guild art, it would need to be manually reduced to it's maximum appropriate value.

[Jawsman]

In partial agreement with Athena.

Members of Trappers Guild and City Guard should be allowed to possess an initiate's crest, but NOT their house art.

[Koi-Cricket]

False information!

You can get the crest so that you are able to take advantage of the vaults, and move around the house freely, but you cannot have or use the house art.

[Ironies]

I agree with this to a point. If having invs and poison cloud isn't right then is it ok to dual focus as a DS then and have invs?

[Uthanatos]

I'll say OOC pretty much the same thing Uthy has expressed IC. Guilds can't be allowed to "pull a Bastion" utilizing the guild resources and guild houses, while shielding the guilds from repercussions. That being said, it's going to be up to us to self police on that front. Set firm rules and stand by them. No, it's not possible to 100% prevent abuse, but when it can be shown to be the case, we should be accountable and do whatever possible to discourage it in the future. I think that the house arts shouldn't be a big deal, IN THE FUTURE, if they can be tailored to the guild to prevent them from being able to tip the scales that way. HOWEVER, if the guild institutes rules for self policing, using Shadow Step in a political conflict would be considered using guild resources (since it requires a guild PT to power it) and SHOULD result in permanent expulsion from the guild. Right now, this is a problem that should be addressed in game, in character and can easily be resolved by enacting a proper charter for the guild that all members have to adhere to. When I say guild resources I mean all of it, no "camping out" in the guild hall while your house is in conflict, no using guild rechargers, no guild PTs, no taking items from the guild stores, the whole shebang, but it's up to us as players to police our own and be honest about it, because if we can't act responsibly and we need to have GMs step in every time someone does something asinine, we as players voluntarily give up directional development of the game, which, is really the appeal of Underlight isn't it? The players control the societal norm, the players control the direction of the game based off mutual interest. It's why we love UL and it's why we need to be adults and communicate. End Rant

[Yuritau]

Most of us can't afford to lose half our XP for being dual crested..

If guilds aren't getting the full benefit of using a house (house art etc), and I agree they shouldn't, there should not be any penalty for having membership in a house and a guild at the same time, imho.

[Brother Timothy]

What guilds? The other night I detected people up at uotc. I had heard that the guard was opening uotc as it was a better base with access to the palisade instead of por. So I went there as I had an interest in the guard. I specifically asked if the house was just a resource used by the city guard, or if it was a house just hosting the guard. I was specifically told that uotc was a house and that the guard was but a branch of the house. To me that is not a guild, that is a house with a militant branch that calls itself the city guard. Now to some that might not matter. To some that might not make a difference. But to me and to this discussion I think it makes a world of difference.

[Koi-Cricket]

Welcome back to the City Bro Tim. You may wish to check the city again and speak with Nomad.

[Brother Timothy]

Um, thanks? but I never actually left. I have problems dreaming at "normal" times. When I do pop in every few weeks the dream is usually empty, like today.

[HarleyofCienn]

Theres an easy solution to this, no PTs no use of house art. Since a lot of people know some or all of the house arts its unrealistic to say they can't learn them. Invis is something the trappers guild doesn't super need, but if the City Guard is protecting the city against some group like let's say the consortium then BC could be useful. But again, use of guild house arts can be controlled by not giving PTs. That would mean everyone in the guild wouldn't be able to use the art either which isn't fair. A 'free-spirit' CG with BC is just as likely to use that house art against foes as a dual crested one, so there's no point in keeping it away from duals at least with duals there may be consequences with their house.

Nomad has stated, if u seek him ig, that if your house goes to war u gotta demote out of Uotc anyways. So that lessens the chance of the CG (idk if the same goes for the trappers guild) using the houses art against other players in combat situations even if they do have and can use BC.

For this reason (having to demote during wartimes), and the fact that if misused there could be consequences from a dual crested members house, I personally think dual crested members of guilds should be able to have and use the house art. If its misused against you, retaliate against that individual or declare war against their regular house, or snitch on em (to their leadership/Nomad NOT gms) We have to be able to react to each others actions ig, instead of trying to squelch them before they can wrong you in some way. Its way more complicated to come out here and talk about how to repress players abilities than it is to DEAL WITH IT IG.

[Uthanatos]

I don't think you can have a dual standard for Guilds, we need to have a uniform idea on them. I don't have a problem with guilds having their own arts, but I feel like those arts should reflect the guilds, not the houses that they occupy. Of course that's a coding issue and unless/until something like that can be done, I feel like those arts should be unavailable to dreamers as a whole.

As far as PTs. If the house arts aren't available, there should be no problem with guild members having PTs for forging and project work and the like.

The trapper's guild charter very specifically states that abuse of the guild or guild resources will result in permanent expulsion...permanent, so yeah, there's potential for someone to do something stupid, but that's their choice and they only get to do it once, forever. The trappers guild will have a publicly accessible members list and if necessary, a banned list.