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Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

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Jerulan
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Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Jerulan »

First of all, the loot dropping DM's is a great idea. It kind of exposes a problem in the game that has really existed for a long time, and is just getting worse. I am talking about the growing number of players taking advantage of the fact you can snatch things that objectively do not belong to you off the ground anonymously.

This is a problem for several reasons... But lets get this out of the way before I begin. Stealing items off the ground that belongs to someone else is not roleplaying. You are not being some sneaky evil criminal mastermind. You are being a dishonest idiot taking advantage of an old game with limited functionality. You do not see people lean down, grab at, reach for, or commit any other movement except that really stupid looking wave. Emotes are there to express actions of your character in ways that limited game mechanics do not allow. No, your character does not have a star trek transporter in his pocket that allows him to discreetly vanish shit off the ground, and make it appear in his pack. You are being a dishonest douchebag that will throw away obvious common decency the second you think you can get away with it. Rationalize it all you want. You suck.

Now lets be clear. There is nothing wrong with stealing in character. If you emote picking up something that doesn't belong to you, that IS perfectly valid. I don't want to see some enforced loot system like in MMO's. Broadcast to the room who picks up what. Having 5 dreamers competing to steal anything they can get their hands on penalizes people who are earning in game rewards by participating in activities as intended.

I am not here ranting because I had some chakram stolen from me. I have not really even been a victim of this. The issue pisses me off because some people in this community are outrageously hypocritical, constantly looking for any possibly way to point a finger at THEIR CHARACTERS enemies, presenting themselves as some roleplaying purists that are actually concerned about the integrity of the game and not getting their way in some war, or in game issue. Then they run around abusing this into the ground because they know they can get away with it.
Koi-Legend

Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Koi-Legend »

In short: we agree. The intent is to reward all of the players who come out and get involved.

What we wanted to see is players form a method to distribute it. We knew theft would happen but basically it's the only thing happening. Players want to use the mechanics in this way and that is valid, though it has been noticed and is disappointing to us. So we will make it more in line with our intent.
Dina

Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Dina »

I agree 100%. Last night pissed me off. Granted Krodoc was handed "a" GK chak...but was it the right one that was dropped? I doubt it. Someone took Brae's shit too. It is poor form....period. The purpose of the DMs dropping them is so it can be FUN for players....not to make players not want to get invloved because players can't keep their hands off of what doesn't belong to them.
Tobyz Friend
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Tobyz Friend »

My only problem with your theory Jeru is that you assume the person that got the killing blow deserves everything that is dropped by the DM. Dark Mare collapses are a group effort most of the time, not one person. If a single person fights the DM from full DreamSoul to collapse, then for sure they deserve all the items that drop, but if there are 5 others fighting the DM as well, the person that got lucky and hit the final shot isn't any more deserving of what dropped than the others that were involved in the collapse. I don't disagree that a good method to distribute what drops needs to be established, but I don't think the "killing blow" entitles anyone to everything that drops.
The nicest smiles often hide the darkest demons.
Jerulan
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Jerulan »

Tobyz Friend wrote:My only problem with your theory Jeru is that you assume the person that got the killing blow deserves everything that is dropped by the DM. Dark Mare collapses are a group effort most of the time, not one person. If a single person fights the DM from full DreamSoul to collapse, then for sure they deserve all the items that drop, but if there are 5 others fighting the DM as well, the person that got lucky and hit the final shot isn't any more deserving of what dropped than the others that were involved in the collapse. I don't disagree that a good method to distribute what drops needs to be established, but I don't think the "killing blow" entitles anyone to everything that drops.
I agree with you. Distribute it however you like. Argue about it, fight over it, whatever. None of that can happen because people are exploiting game mechanics to eliminate accountability for their actions.
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Koi-Wish
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Koi-Wish »

We noticed this as well... and we discussed various options to deal with, I want an opinion on this approach before we potentially make it a standard practice.

Right now: DMs carry a special pack of items and drops them on the ground after a collapse.

Proposed solutions:
1) Alter "You picked up a Gold Tan Chakram" that YOU see on your client side, to be visible by all.
Pros- YOU will know who got what.
Cons- Thieves and sneaky players can no longer steal anything.

2) Randomize the above chance - say 30% chance everyone in room sees you grab something.
Pros- Thieves can still take the risk. Folks "might" see who picked up items.
Cons- Still requires a code change, and why would IC this action sometimes be viewable, sometimes not - although we do see whispers sometimes, we never see players GIVE - do we change that as well? And Giving thru rooms is a bit hard to explain IC - its all a mental thing anyways - so why should anyone ever have to see you pick up items or give them..

1 and 2 also give additional room spam.

and this simple solution may just be the best IC and easiest way to at least try to be fair and what we likely WILL be doing:
3) Instead of dropping the items at their feet -
You have collapsed Maculif!!
-- RAW EMOTE --
"Maculif's bag of items falls to he ground and tosses items in all directions" (( or some random version of this ))
The controller throws items about the room - giving pure chance at seeing the item to the players, they have to watch for the items to hit the floor in all directions -
Pros - Not just the guy standing next to Maculif gets the items, or the quickest grab-item-guy, but anyone in the room has a fair shake of getting items. And if you see Joe Dreamer run at a GK 60 and it disappears chances are you also found your "thief" should you want to accuse him/her of that. And there is a good chance most folks wont even know what all fell on the ground - so accusing someone of taking something that a lot of folks might have seen becomes less likely
Cons - Players will still say Hey why would you throw the DS 60 near the feet of a FS?!! :Answer: We will do our best to be random in the tossing, please just accept where it landed.

Thoughts?
Dina

Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Dina »

I like it Wishy. Dina usually just waits for stuff to be given to her cuz the healing/abjuring SM doesn't usually get the kill!! No love for the SMs I'm tellin ya! Ok ok ok....she was given a 50 last night from Maculif!
Jerulan
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Jerulan »

I could live with any of these solutions. The thing about it is, there are people out there that not only do this with the "loot" DM's, but also run around during DM attacks just collecting stuff people drop when they collapse. For me, someone roaming a room picking up loot should be as noticeable as someone snatching a waiters tip from a table in a busy restaurant.

People using a lack of function in game to indicate an action that from an in character standpoint, DOES require a visible action to achieve bothers me. And just because you see someone take something, does not mean thiefs and criminals cant exist. It's just like real life... if you do shit in front of people they catch you.

The last option seems easiest to implement. If you did that one, and introduced a GM character that represents some sort of investigator, where he sneaks around watching for people who are being really bad about it, and outing reporting their crimes to the houses?
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Dakkoth
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Dakkoth »

Even though the proposed "toss them in random spread out directions" is the best idea as of now, it still has its' issues. For instance, now that people know this, they will spread themselves out waiting and watching to see. This is no different than that of piling around a DM waiting to snatch up the loot other than the fact that now it won't be 1 person who snags it all up but a few-several. Which means if a SM chak doesn't get thrown Dakkoth/Dina/Rockk/Sidious/Kage's way, for example, we'll have to then work that out IC and I suppose it's fine. But perhaps a new idea....loot GIVEN to dreamers who participated. Everybody gets an item. Something that they can benefit from. And don't just make it chaks. Chaks are good. But change it up. Drs elemens...focus elemens....hell even a nice blade or something. An invis alt (now there's an idea!). Chaks are nice but not everybody is into chaks.

Considering the amount of focus Dakkoth sees when he's in a Dark Mare fight, I have him burning through massive amounts of shields and dreamsoul elemens just to stay alive. Then break free to abjure/restore. There was one time I was in position to get the killing blow and Thunderman jumped in front and took it! hahaha. No worries, Tman. It's all good. But the point I'm making of this all is that....for those of us who play utility/support roles in the fray, we too could use some love as we play vital and key roles to the DM collapse.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
~Mike
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Koi-Wish
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Koi-Wish »

We don't just drop chakrams, not even close. But its the chakrams that tend to draw the most complaint as they are focus oriented. I am opposed to 'giving' the items - for one its even more difficult to RP a graciously defeated DM giving items as rewards- 2nd you can't evoke the art of Give as a soulsphere. Its a challenge to do right or we do away with it all together but I believe most players like the increased risk/reward to go along with the RP of DMs. We will work thru it. Again its the mistake, learn and go with 'best' option... We will blow it, just like we did with LC Raid... But as long as you guys bear with us - in the end we are trying to keep everyone's best interest in mind and keep game balance as 'best' we can.
Koi-Legend

Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Koi-Legend »

There's still risk in Underlight, there's still chance and randomness. Nothing is certain or safe. The items being spread out, you're going to see people move toward them, they may not get to pick up what they wanted, which leaves others in a position to bargain, trade, or have people random for it.

I can attest it's not just Chakrams being dropped. Maybe you just haven't picked up one of the other special items.
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Dakkoth
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Dakkoth »

Yeah...I've only been to one of these DM raids. The only thing I saw dropped (by the time I noticed anything was being dropped) were chaks only. And that's all I had heard dropped that night. Nobody bragged about picking up an elemen or alteror or anything. Hence why I said it. But I'm glad to hear you all are incorporating more than just chaks. That's good!

Yeah....do your best. We'll continue to struggle to control the distribution. I have some more ideas but gotta get back to work. Will put them up later or tomorrow at some point.

~Mike
Kailoth
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Kailoth »

This sounds more like a QQ session.

So let me guess, the blaster in the room didn't help you collapse the mare? The abjurer didn't help you collapse the mare? You solo'd that mare with 15 other people in the room? Also, There were no other GK's in the room to help collapse the mare? Look, I'm all for whoever got the kill shot getting something, but I've collapsed mares on many occasions and never received an item, or an essence. Oh well. Whoopty doo...

For the record, Had I known half of what was going on at the time I would have said something to Krodoc sooner IC about what I was doing, but I was busy in whispers with about 6 people at the time, and wasn't paying attention to chat. If I truly wanted to hide it. I would have never said anything at all.
Jerulan
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Jerulan »

Who gets the loot drop, or how loot distribution is decided is not what I am talking about. I think the argument that the person who lands the killing blow is not necessarily entitled to the loot drops is fine. I did not post this in response to any one incident. Also, as I said, making it known you took the items is not what this is about either. If you make it known in any way, I am cool with that.
Krodoc
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Character Name(s): Krodoc

Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Krodoc »

I agree that collapsing a DM is a group effort, and my particular toon is typically not going to bother picking up anything besides GK stuff and any chakram that he may be able to give to housemates. But if a GK is the one who got the killing blow on the DM, the GK should get the GK stuff. Let the rest be free reign for people to grab. If a DS gets the collapse, all DS items should go to that dreamer.

It would also help if there was some sort of indication as to who floated the mare in the first place. You don't know who floated it unless you're in a party, and all you know is that a party member did it. I think if people saw who got the kill, it would allow them to avoid certain items, but they probably won't because they want to take advantage of the mass drops.

Ultimately, I don't expect anything to be done about this as it'll be more of a pain in the ass than it's worth most likely. I'd still like to be able to see who got the collapse though.
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Dakkoth
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Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Dakkoth »

In that case, krodoc, I'll just stop having Dakkoth abjure restore peace aura etc and just start slinging chaks and collapse those that jump infront of him trying to steal the killing blow. ofcourse Im being sarcastic because the whole idea is just not smart. I've missed out on 2 SM 60 chaks now because other foci have picked them up and are either trying to trade then for their focus 60s or give them to somebody who wasn't even in the fight. its just absurd really. the loot should be divided to those that fought and to those that can use them.

one of the nights "something odd happened" and Dakkoth got 80k which put him to the next orbit. i thought that was rather brilliant. made the 3+ hours of RP and dm fighting worth it. but these other nights when chaks are dropping, there's just no love for us casters who take the brunt of the assault and contribute to the abjure / para combo that ultimately sets up the kill. instead you all who play noncasters pad yourself on the backs as if you alone did all the work and deserve a mandatory item. that's just an absurd notion.

we all contribute and even Dakkoth slings chaks when he's being focused and can't cast. so lets divide it up amongst those who are there. otherwise i won't have Dakkoth abjuring anymore and i will just start slinging chaks for the kills and claim to chak drops. id rather not go down this path as it may have much poorer results

~Mike
Koi-Legend

Re: Broadcast who picks up items to rooms. (RANT ALERT)

Post by Koi-Legend »

There is a new system inbound.
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