Suggestion against battlewakers and storming

[Dina]

In SoT they changed it to where if you stormed or woke, you ended back in the same spot when you came back to the game. Everyone was given an art called Nexus Teleport which took them to the Nexus at the Citadel. I loved these changes because:

1. It lowered the chance that someone would battlewake and end up back in thresh and sit.
2. With the storming issues lately, this would make it better for everyone. Sucks when you are at a place like OoSM and storm, then having to run all the way back up.

If you didn't want to come back to that place, you had the art that took several seconds to evoke. I think it was around 13 evoke cones like Guild House. So before you wake, you would use the art.

[Dina]

Yeah that is true, they may just wake and then wait 10 minutes to come back. BUT it did work on occasions in SoT when someone would fight then run, then wake to Thresh.

The storm issue, uhhggg....

It has been horrible...art up, fight for 20 seconds then STORM....the gm's know all about it and I know they are working on it. However it would still be nice to have it back....and the instant wake from a sanc or threshold. We didn't have the timer on waking while being in a sanc or thresh, that was really nice to have and it didn't cause any issues rp wise.

[Starfall]

I've never minded battle waking or threshsitting. I don't think anyone's entitled to collapsing anyone or forcing someone into combat, no matter how much effort is put in to trying. Either you succeed or you don't. And like Eros pointed out, they just stay logged out for the time they would have been in Thresh.

What I would like is an additional portal in the Courtyard that optionally sends you right back to where you were, or you can use the house and thresh portals as normal.

[Dina]

Battlewaking was prohibited in SoT. You were actually docked XP if they saw it was true. Consequences my dear....consequences!

BUT it is mainly because of the chat bug issue, why I want it back.

[Star Scream]

I havnt run into any battlewakers yet but the chat bug os a nightmare. My only concern with this change would be to storm out and then when I try to return my arts arnt set and somebody is sitting were I stormed with a 50 para chak blasting. That would suck and make the storm issue even worse. At the prive of losing 100k I'd rather make the walk over again and be able to art up.

[Cherokee]

I don't think battlewaking should be dealt with such a firm hand, as it was near the end of SoT. It was a little too much when our whole group got docked, just for being around someone who mentioned the term "battlewaking".

However, I don't think we should turn a blind eye to it, either. If battlewaking was ignored completely, there wouldn't be any real consequence for those that just want to run their mouth in a sanctuary. It could be handled in a case by case basis, where you at least get a warning or two.

Example: Dreamer from house A is on an outer plane, and senses a horde of dreamers from house B headed their way. It shouldn't be looked down upon if that dreamer woke ahead of time to get out of that situation.

But it would be different, however, if an opposing house member walked into a perfectly timed ward trap, and just woke out of it to avoid taking their beating. (I've had someone wake out of one of my traps before, it's rather annoying.)

If they re-implement starting where we wake/storm, I think we should automatically have all of our previous arts set, because it would be a problem, as Star Scream mentioned.

[Fistandantilis]

There are already in game mechanics to combat battlewaking, scare. It already takes 5-6 seconds to wake, which is enough time to land at least 3 chak shots on a stationary target, and you also have the option to scare and break the wake cycle. I consider battlewaking a completely IC action, although dishonorable and underhanded.

If there were any changes made, I would like to see something like taking damage would stop the wake, or receiving any kind of aggressive effect like deafen, to give those arts more usefulness. This would prevent the ward trap waking, but also still allow the option to run and wake in a pinch if that's what your character is inclined to do. (Damage stopping the cycle would buff poison and make it useful)

I don't want to see anything done on a case by case basis because that is a slippery slope. Is it battlewaking when you locate enemies in your plane and wake? Just when you take damage and wake? On the run from a group and wake? Leaves to much room for interpretation when there can be some concrete mechanics like the ones mentioned above to mitigate it but not kill it altogether.

All that being said, use the mechanic available, scare.

[Fistandantilis]

I don't like the idea of restarting where you woke from, for the reasons SS mentioned. I do think there could be some positive changes that would make it more difficult to wake while engaged or pursued.

1. All damage will stop the wake cycle. (This would buff poison into almost useful status, while also making any other DD a good wake stopper.)

2. Negative effects on Avatar will prevent waking. (Deafen is not preventable via a protection art, and would be perfect to stop a wake in this manner. This would also elevate deafen to almost useful status, which it has never even been close to.)

With this change, poison and deafen (maybe more arts) would be viable to stop wakes, even while portal hopping because they are duration effects. Instant blast is also viable, as well as conventional chakrams. These changes would allow you to take direct actions to prevent a battlewake that you might know is imminent, while not screwing over people that legitimately lag out.

Thoughts?

[Miriel]

I agree with both of Fist's observations and suggestions.

I only played SOT for about a week, but I found the returning to the spot you'd wakened from more of a nuisance than a help. It doesn't take all that long to get to most places in the dream if you know your way around. And as Star Scream said, if you're in the middle of a fight and pop back in with no arts, you're pretty much a sitting duck.

I also really like Fist's suggestion that any damage should stop you from waking. One of my most frustrating memories from UL Lyra was one night in OSM's main when I said good night and started the log out sequence just as a daymare ran in and started shooting at me. With no way to break the log out I just had to sit there and watch my avatar collapse just as the sequence ended and I woke as a soul sphere.

[Ghazgkull]

I feel like if someone wants to quit the game, they should be able to quit the game. Sorry, but no other game in the universe tries to prevent you from quitting if you're getting your butt kicked.

I certainly understand the frustration, but is anyone really abusing it to an extreme degree?

[Dina]

No, it was only a suggestion. More for the storming issue. Which I stated already.

[Sidas]

I feel like if someone wants to quit the game, they should be able to quit the game. Sorry, but no other game in the universe tries to prevent you from quitting if you're getting your butt kicked.

That is incorrect. Literally every multiplayer roleplaying game that I know prevents you from leaving during combat.

Even Diablo 3 has a countdown if you're outside of town.

[Ghazgkull]

Literally every multiplayer roleplaying game that I know prevents you from leaving during combat.

A couple second countdown like UL has, I understand, but what game let's other players prevent you from quitting?

[Tary]

No amount of protection will stop some people from trying to avoid losing XP. Sorry, it's just a fact of life: people cheat on their taxes and people will cheat in the game. Countdown timer? Screw that, I'll alt-tab. Block my alt-tab? Ok I'll pull my network cable. Oh, I'm on wifi? Ok I'll turn off my router.

No countdown timer will prevent people from violating Wheaton's Law.

[Riggs]

It never really helped much against battlewakers since they would just wake then wait 10 minutes or so before returning, but it was really nice for storms and would be awesome right now. It was also pretty cool for roleplaying opportunities. I would plant myself some where the night before a meeting or something then emote "Eros suddenly appears in a giant burst of flame!"

Is this because Eros is a FLAMER?!!?!?!?

Also, I think Starfall got it right. I don't know the mechanics in terms of coding, but a portal in Courtyard that can somehow tag your previous waking location that gives you a choice, would make those in favor of and those against it both happy - for instances like SS's concern.

Fist has a really good idea about making aggressive arts actually useful. Altho, such a change could add a highly unwanted trolling/PK aspect to a game that doesn't need one, which is the impression I got from Ghaz's post.

And sadly, Tary is right. Sucks, but it's the truth.

Like the 'personal vaults' we formerly had in Thresh, certainly star's idea of a portal that can send you back to the spot you woke from is possible?