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Option to create a PvE only character?

This is a game for roleplayers. We want your ideas how how to build the better game. Post your suggestions here.
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Black Cloud
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by Black Cloud » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:07 am

jimhabegger,

The feature you are talking about is something which I also thought about a while back in regards to a newer version of Underlight, if that time ever comes to pass. The idea was that the newer version will be cross-platform compatible, mainly between mobile and pc. Now, imagine that you're on your PC and playing with full functionality and control of your character. Why would you only have full control at your PC? Because of the keybinding mostly. The complex keybindings of any character are the same reason that games like WoW don't work well, or at all, on console controllers and mobile devices.

Taking that in to account, you would be able to login with your mobile device. Simplified textures and user interface would allow you to roam the city in a "ghost" like mode where you can do anything except for manipulate the dreamstate or other dreamers. This means that you can't attack or get attacked, you can't pick up or drop items, you cant evoke arts on anyone but yourself. So, this would mean that in this mode you can't fight in battles or even help by restoring. I can't think of a way that a mobile device would allow full functionality, and so it could represent, in IC terms, a weaker connection to the City. The PC could serve as the main 'pipeline' to the City, or however you'd like to say it.

In this way, every dreamer would have the ability to be in the city to observe and communicate, but no more than that. Logging on from a PC would allow you full access to your avatar and dreamstate.
jimhabegger
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by jimhabegger » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:57 am

Sidas wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:37 pm
The social rules of Underlight will generally protect a true pacifist character. This would cover somebody like a Taroneh Afsoon from Lyra. They are usually protected by everyone and as such safe from pretty much any conflict. This wouldn't be a blanket application to AoE just because you get too much of a range of people, some of which try to use pacifism as a shield. This can also be evidenced in the regular acceptance of non-violence in Chimeric, which is something that I don't even think Lu Chaos has violated.

tl;dr; True pacifist characters have nothing to worry about from other players because they are protected by everyone else.
You're helping to confirm what I'm thinking now, that the possibility I have in mind already exists, enough for my purposes. Not completely, because what I had in mind was for a player to to be able to opt out of PvP and still have the same access to the whole city as any other player, without being confined to the sanctuaries or be accompanied by bodyguards. If that isn't entirely how it is already, it might be close enough to that for my purposes, and even if it isn't, coding it into the game doesn't seem like such a good idea to me any more.
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone."

- Hal David, Jackie DeShannon, Burt Bacharach
jimhabegger
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by jimhabegger » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:21 am

Yuritau wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:19 am
That's how society works, and that's what true roleplaying in UL is.
ROTFL! The conditions that you want to be imposed on *all* players, no matter how much it ruins their fun in the game, are not like the real world at all. In the real world, the laws don't allow people to go all over town knifing, shooting and murdering anyone they want to, anywhere they want to outside of some sanctuaries, regardless of their reasons, much less for the lame, contrived, false and even shamelessly criminal excuses that I see being used in the game. Can you point me to some UL documentation where "true roleplaying" is defined that way?
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone."

- Hal David, Jackie DeShannon, Burt Bacharach
jimhabegger
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by jimhabegger » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:00 am

Yuritau, if you're talking about relationships between nations, then I agree with you that the real world really is like that. Is that what you mean? However that may be, I'm still not convinced that it's contrary to the intentions of the providers of the game to have some player characters who can't be targets for PvP. Can you point me to some UL documentation that says that? I'm not denying that some players want to be able to attack anyone they want to, any time, anywhere. I am denying that it's wrong for anyone not to agree with that. I'm not even sure that most players do agree with it. Also, I don't believe that it would have to spoil anyone's fun at all to have a few player characters in the game that could not be targets for PvP. Anyway, coding that into the game doesn't seem like such a good idea to me any more. Are you opposed to anyone excluding anyone as targets for their PvP, even if they want to?
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone."

- Hal David, Jackie DeShannon, Burt Bacharach
jimhabegger
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by jimhabegger » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:00 am

Yuritau wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:19 am
Going outside of sanctuary makes PVP possible, just like the real world where going outside makes it possible for someone to punch you in the face. Is it likely? In both cases, that depends almost completely on how you behave. If you are kind and courteous, you can reasonably expect not to be assaulted. If you are rude or aggressive, the chances go up. That's how society works, and that's what true roleplaying in UL is: a small, fully functioning society, as it can best be represented within the mechanics of a game engine more than 20 years old.
In the real world, do you agree for people to knife, shoot or even murder you if they think that you're being rude or aggressive? In fact, would you agree for the laws to allow anyone to knife, shoot or murder you for any reason at all? I doubt that anyone playing this game lives in a country where the laws allow armed conflict between factions, or people going around knifing, shooting and murdering anyone they want to, any time, anywhere outside of some sanctuaries.

Maybe what you mean is that you can't see any plausible reason in the fictional world of the game, for there to be characters like that.

As I said, I've lost interest in the idea of coding that into the game. What I'm discussing now is the idea of players voluntarily excluding a character as a target of their PvP, if they see that the player isn't volunteering for it. Can you think of any other reasons for objecting to that, besides how implausible it seems to you? Apart from that, do you think that would make it any harder for you to advance and to have fun in the game?
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone."

- Hal David, Jackie DeShannon, Burt Bacharach
jimhabegger
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Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:11 am
Character Name(s): Farlong

Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by jimhabegger » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Sidas wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:37 pm
The social rules of Underlight will generally protect a true pacifist character. This would cover somebody like a Taroneh Afsoon from Lyra. They are usually protected by everyone and as such safe from pretty much any conflict.
tl;dr; True pacifist characters have nothing to worry about from other players because they are protected by everyone else.
First I want to say that I’m not thinking of changes to the game any more as solutions to my problems or anyone else’s, and that the possibilities that I had in mind for people who don’t like PvP might already exist, enough for my purposes. Then to clarify the possibilities that I had in mind, it was for people to be able to opt out of PvP, and still have the same freedom as anyone else, to go where they want to in the city, without being confined to the sanctuaries or to places where they will be protected by others. Besides, if their freedom to go where they want to go in the city depends on the protection of others, then they aren’t really opting out of the PvP. They’re letting others do their PvP for them.
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone."

- Hal David, Jackie DeShannon, Burt Bacharach
Lu Chaos
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by Lu Chaos » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:16 pm

Sidas wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:37 pm
The social rules of Underlight will generally protect a true pacifist character. This would cover somebody like a Taroneh Afsoon from Lyra. They are usually protected by everyone and as such safe from pretty much any conflict. This wouldn't be a blanket application to AoE just because you get too much of a range of people, some of which try to use pacifism as a shield. This can also be evidenced in the regular acceptance of non-violence in Chimeric, which is something that I don't even think Lu Chaos has violated.

tl;dr; True pacifist characters have nothing to worry about from other players because they are protected by everyone else.
Totally agree.

A real pacifist can sit back and relax because everyone else would protect them. *Facts*
jimhabegger
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by jimhabegger » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:13 pm

Maybe I was making a mountain out of a molehill with this topic ...

Anyway, thanks to everyone for your comments on this.
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone."

- Hal David, Jackie DeShannon, Burt Bacharach
jimhabegger
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Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:11 am
Character Name(s): Farlong

Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by jimhabegger » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:09 pm

Sidas wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:37 pm
tl;dr; True pacifist characters have nothing to worry about from other players because they are protected by everyone else.
Lu Chaos wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:16 pm
Totally agree.

A real pacifist can sit back and relax because everyone else would protect them. *Facts*
Now I'm the one who has trouble with that. If the character is agreeing to that, I would not call them a true or real pacifist. Someone who agrees for others to do their fighting for them, to protect them, so they can be free to do whatever they want to do, without having to do any fighting themselves? That looks worse to me than coding it into the game. That looks like exactly what I've seen people objecting to the most: a player being able to play without any risk, and to make others targets for PvP without being a target of it themselves. Yuritau, are you okay with that? If so, then it confirms what I was thinking, that it doesn't spoil the fun for anyone, to have some player characters who can't be targets for PvP.

I'm not sure what my reason is for not liking PvP, but it isn't because of any pacifism. It might be because I've never advanced far enough in any online game to have any hope of winning or helping to win PvP battles. Or maybe it's just a matter of taste, that the fun for me is all in the story, the fictional environment, the exploring, the quests, and other dimensions of the games, and PvP just doesn't happen to interest me. I was looking for a way for a person who doesn't like PvP not to be a target for it, but now I've changed my mind. Like people have been saying, that is and always has been an inseparable part of the game. It isn't a problem for me that I can be killed and set back by mares, so why should it be a problem that I can be killed and set back by players? It never has been a problem for me, actually. I just thought it might be a problem for some other people, but now I think that maybe I've been searching for a problem where there is none.

However that may be, I would *not* like being protected from PvP by other players doing my fighting for me. That's part of my pacifism, if anyone wants to call it that.
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love.
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone."

- Hal David, Jackie DeShannon, Burt Bacharach
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Koi-JorKyrin
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Re: Option to create a PvE only character?

Post by Koi-JorKyrin » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:53 am

Hey folks, I want to officially make a statement about this request. -- First off jimhabegger, thank you for placing the suggestions, I think if it hadn't been suggested now, it would of been in the future. While the terms PVP and PVE are out there and we have games like World of Warcraft and EverQuest to attribute to that, on this particular request I reflect back to the Underlight address last year, in the sense that, the mindset KoiWare is moving forward with is preservation of a historic game. -------> What does that even mean? This is a difficult statement to draw a definitive line in the sand because it is a broad descriptive and requires explanation to understand what that means to KoiWare and to the Underlight Community. ----> The short description is, KoiWare wants to bring the Underlight experience to the future player-base. That is, and to the best of our ability, deliver on a gaming experience of what it was like back during the Lyra era. It will never be exactly like that time era, but part of this is not taking Underlight too far off those tracks. This suggestion would IMO veer too far off that path causing unintentional issues down the road, thus breaking that experience we are trying to bring the new additions to the UL Community.

There are other angles that can be taken however. I have recently suggested to the dev level editors to add more content that is more sanctuary based, so that more options exist to avoid having to battle other dreamers. This is a ways out though with no ETA.

Anyways, I wanted to drop a line here before the thread started to go too far. All of it was constructive feedback, which I love!

Regards,
Koi - Jor'Kyrin (Ducky)
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