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Forge Talisman and Combine

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Starfall
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Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Starfall »

Can we get this addressed OOC by coding it out as a possibility rather than with kludgy, barely-enforceable IC wristslap-and-stinkeye rules? I wanted to raise this here before it's debated by the Smiths in game because I really think that like Drain Self, it needs to be addressed at the code level. If teachers are left issuing toothless cautions, people will ignore it at the very time restraint is needed most, i.e. when it's most tempting, people will rationalize using it this time, and then that time, and oh, but this war is really important. Either it's a balance problem or it's not. And if folks don't see it as an OOC game balance issue, I don't see why it ought to be treated as one IC.
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Ghazgkull
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Re: Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Ghazgkull »

Eros wrote:Combine is pretty much useless if you're not using it with forge.
Why is is useless? I have a bunch of Combined elemens in my pack. Should I not?

(Serious question. Am I missing something?)
Sidas
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Re: Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Sidas »

Eros wrote: I think the main problem isn't that you can combine two forged items, but that forged items shouldn't have more charges then can be found naturally. For example, dreamsoul elemens can only be found with 25 charges maxed, or recharged to 19 charges. But lvl 79 forge can create 79 charged dreamsoul elemens.

There is a maximum charge limit in place already for combine and forge. Items cannot be combined to more than 100 charges. IF you combine two 79 charged dreamsoul elemens, you will only get 1 100 charged elemen.
And this is why this topic is LOL. Combine is pointless when it comes to forged items for the most part. The time it becomes "overpowering" is where it doesn't make sense to Combine Forged Items. Why does it matter that I can combine my +1-3 dreamsoul elemens that I make while imping Forge? They're certainly not used in battle and I'm certainly not going to Combine +10-30 dreamsoul elemens that have 69 charges each.

This topic just seems to be a misconception in how Combine works, particularly in relation to how Forge works. If you want to change something, it should be an enforcement in descriptions being included, and NOT a restriction on Combine because that's just stupid.
Jerulan
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Re: Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Jerulan »

I don't see it as a balance issue, and I think forge is fine the way it is in terms of charges. People should be able to use the shit however they want. It is a powerful tool, and it's meant to be one. There are far more unbalancing aspects of this game. Also the forced description thing is stupid, and adds nothing to the game. If you want to forge a mindless DRS elemen for a fight, you should be able to. Also, they need to bring back force restore, because there was no problem with it the way it used to be.
Star Scream
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Re: Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Star Scream »

I'm with Jerulan on this. I think forge is the most highly regulated art/ability in the game is it is. It takes so much time, effort, and work to get forge to the point were it is useful that adding more restrictions would be overkill. As for combine, I'm not aware of anyone using combine with forge except to imp forge so I havnt seen it become an issue personallly. That isn't to say that it hasn't happened, I'm just not aware of it. As Eros said, by the time forge becomes really any use in a combat aspect it doesn't make sence to combine it anyway because then you actually waste charges.

With the forge nerfing and all the restrictions that already come with the art I'd really hate to see it evolve any farther. I don't know of any issues were forge is really being abused like it may have been in Lyra on occasion.

I may not completely understand all aspects of this concern though because I'm not a forge expert so forgive me if I'm missing something and let me know if I've overlooked something. I know Starfall is way more knowledgeable of the ins and outs of it then I am so I'm sure she's got a point, I just don't know enough about it maybe.
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Gerroz
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Re: Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Gerroz »

I haven't combined one single forged item except once, which was for Starfalls's point of it being overpowered. And I don't see myself starting now. As Eros said, when one is out of charges, I simply make another.


Btw while I see Jerulan's poi t, I disagree. I think descriptions make the game richer. I find myself imagining just how an item might look, when I read descripts, just as I try imagine how each character looks, according to their descriptions. When the graphics of the game is what it is, imagination is what you have left
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Starfall
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Re: Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Starfall »

If people don't see it as a balance issue, I'm fine with that. It's just always brought up to me as one IC, and if it's actually a problem, I don't think IC tools are appropriate for fixing it.
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Krodoc
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Re: Forge Talisman and Combine

Post by Krodoc »

I was going to have a drawn out response to this, but I feel it's better just to simply state that I feel Forge and Combine should simply be left alone. Forge works the way it works, as does Combine. Who cares what people do with it? They put in the effort, and should be able to utilize both arts as they see fit.

I also agree that you should be able to Combine Forged items with descriptions, but I don't think it should be implemented that way simply because I've seen what happens when small changes start to be made. Bigger changes come and before you know it, you've worked too hard to balance something that didn't need balanced to begin with, and you've ruined the game (SoT).
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