Underlight Discord Chat: http://discord.underlight.com/
Production Server: Online (Version 3.1.15)
Player Test Realm Server: Offline (Version 3.1.15)

Concerns about new game direction

This is a game for roleplayers. We want your ideas how how to build the better game. Post your suggestions here.
Post Reply
Star Scream
Dreamer
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:51 pm
Character Name(s): Star Scream

Concerns about new game direction

Post by Star Scream »

There has been a lot of concern regarding the art levels, spheres, halos, forge plats, ect. I just wanted to give a brief summary of my entire take for everyone to argue or support.

In game, most of us play our characters a lot different then the way -we- personally would truly respond in real life. Being able to create and live out this alternate version of yourself or this personality that you have created and evolved over the years is what makes all of our characters unique and fun. I have always played Underlight because I fell in love with my main character and the story that he lived in Underlight. I'm sure that most of you had a main character and you too fell in love with having that freedom to play your character however you wanted to. The freedom you get in Underlight once you achieve at the least 5th sphere, is the addiction that is the game for me. Once Star Scream had 6th sphere and all his arts platted to match I knew that I could play the game the way I really wanted to. I could join the house I really wanted to, fight who I wanted to, befriend and assist who I wanted to. Star Scream had achieved all I cared to achieve arts and plats wise. Much like a number of my friends OOC, we wanted to add to the game as much as we could. We wanted to enjoy ourselves as well as give others a reason to play. Kaer GeRRoZ became a public enemy not only to entertain himself, but also to entertain all of you. I know that he planned his DreamStrike rampage before it happened because a roleplay had been discussed OOC to include Star Scream. These events happened and made the game more fun for all of us. "Evil" or controversial characters are a necessity for Underlight's survival.

Therefore, my point goes on with the fact that events have taken place that have IC created eternal enemies. If Pamsweets wants to hunt Kaer GeRRoZ she should be able to, because the thing we all want as a player base is for the story to go on more then anything. The primary problem with dropping everyone back to a level playing field is the fact that it will not be a even playing field. Star Scream, Kaer GeRRoZ, and RavenXR are three characters I can specifically think of and are only to name a few whom would struggle to fit in and get quests, much less simply get along with everyone else. That's how it should be. These types of characters should not be universally accepted because of their histories but these characters as we stand today, don't need quests and don't need to be accepted unless they -want- to change their characters and mold them into conforming and even then the other players don't have to accept them.

So, as I have clearly stated, it is impossible to create an "even" playing field for everyone by taking the angle of going backwards. That is why I would suggest making new characters able to level up without needing a quest to the 29th or maybe even 39th orbit. At level 39 a skilled player of any focus can compete with most anyone. Take HikariX for example. At level 30 a player can go most places within the game as well. Then you can make 4th sphere and up to be the levels you must task for which makes sence if you think about the more powerful arts and abilities that come above 4th sphere, so this way a player can advance faster but you are still regulated to a certain point for fairness. I think that this is a solution that most of us can agree on and hope some can add something to this and come up with an even better plan. I just hope that we don't go into Underlight 2015 with a crippling mistake that would keep our player base down and cause alot of the same problems Underlight had in it's dieing days. We don't want to lose teachers and abilities that can make the game that much more fun for all of us and we don't want to lose those personalities that make Underlight so wonderful just for the sake of a conceived level playing field.

Thanks for your time reading my long post and looking forward to others views.
If you win the Lotto, throw me a GRAND!
Star Scream
Dreamer
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:51 pm
Character Name(s): Star Scream

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by Star Scream »

I also wanted to mention that I think most of us are in agreement as well that we would prefer Lyra's game mechanics with a few of the innovative ideas from SoT implemented to compliment the original game. Like the cool sound effects and additional rooms. As far as the major and minor arts and focus abilities, I preferred Lyra's version by far but liked some of the ideas behind the changes made.
If you win the Lotto, throw me a GRAND!
User avatar
Koi-Spark
Dreamer
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by Koi-Spark »

Star Scream,

I sincerely appreciate the feedback you've provided here. Rest assured, any reductions players may see at the start of Clash of Dreams are not intended to "level the playing field" - any reductions are going to be across-the-board to everyone, both Lyra and SOT. The only difference will be to scale the reductions so that it may impact higher spheres (7th+) more than lower spheres (4th-). There has always been a mechanic, since Lyra's days, that if your character was inactive for a certain time, you lost house ranks. Given enough time, you could lose halos, orbits, etc. With that in mind, and the introduction roleplays already forming (Thanks, Koi-Drama!) it makes sense that characters that have been absent for an extended period are going to come back with reduced spheres. Keep in mind that we plan on a much more player-centric advancement system, so you won't face the same obstacles and hurdles you did when trying to get higher spheres and plateaus back in the Lyra days.

I completely understand the concern you've mentioned about the "evil" characters being unable to advance as easily as other players. Obviously, even the non-conformists like yourself will need to properly align themselves with certain other characters or houses to find advancement. I believe our Game Masters are also going to provide avenues for advancement for those less desirable characters that need a "black market," so to speak, for arts and spheres. I think it's important to allow for all styles of roleplaying, especially those who help create some of the best conflicts in the community. It's already been said that Clash of Dreams is going to lean more support towards a "selfish" style of teaching. If, for example, Kaer Gerroz was being hunted by Pamsweets, he could quest all of his students (especially other "evil" players) to bring him her essence to pay for an art. He could quest you for sixth sphere to help him dismantle her house and ensure her failure as a Ruler.

As far as game mechanics go, we're starting from the 2006 Lyra base and implementing SoT changes where applicable. Some are planned for later implementation just so we can get the game launched as quickly as possible. Once we have the ball rolling again after launch, we'll certainly consider any and all suggestions for SOT changes, as well as new original content.
Koi-Spark,
Development Lead
Technical Admin/Support
Level Design, Artwork
Game Master, In-Game Support
User avatar
Gerroz
Dreamer
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by Gerroz »

My feelings on this is pretty known by now, but regardless Star Scream writes many of my thoughts on this exactly. I must however, elaborate a bit:


My main problem with this is not the whole scaling or however it is being done. If I lived in the US or was a student like back in Lyra days, I would likely be up there swinging again in no time. My main problem is that in my case timezones would automatically mean that I would only have weekends to play at times there are actually anyone in the game. This again means that finding the extremely few that can actually task me (noone but GMs can), in itself is hard enough, not to mention leading any grand scale things that could actually earn the high spheres back.

In my case, losing what I had would not be scaling, but permanent docking. The reason is that there's no way in hell you an regain 7th or 8th sphere though a task, without being very regular at prime times, doing monumental, dreamchanging undertakings worthy of the task.

However, when you can sphere and train to 70, you are a major impact to the game by those abilities in themselves. With them I would impact the game in the forementioned monumental way by making -other- players do these things. It is what I enjoyed the most about the game the last couple years of Lyra UL. And with the timezone limiting what I can do in the game, if that is taken away as well, I do not see what I have left to do but to hop in now and then, see if anyone are there, and if so, what difference could this then old, downscaled irregular even make, then.

The sad truth of the matter is that I would likely not play long. Not because I was a crybaby about being scaled down, but because it took the fun of the game I had left away.



PS: I like your example there Spark, but being able to task like that is nothing new :P (bwahaha)
User avatar
Golah
Dreamer
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:15 am

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by Golah »

Im with Ger on this, not sure I am in on the whole loss do to time thing, it is what it is. I would rather just stay lost (game never came back) than to see the char I worked years on leveled down due to inactivity, but its not my game. Its easy to explain why 7th and 8th spheres people retained what they had maybe not maxed I give you that but at the very least lvl 70.

There were many protection roleplays going on before Lyra went down, we could of retreated from chaos etc, I digress I guess, I just recall the many many many many months spent on level 70, the tasks for lvl 60 I mean it was insane, insane is being kind.

There were also some issues with time to dream, being we are all much older now, we have jobs families etc, or live in far away places, which makes commitments to tasks all that more difficult.

I would like to see if we can try rolling the dice here and leaving it as is, and making changes as we progress, let us see what happens, and together find a workable solution, im not insane, if I think losing the arts and spheres makes sense for the game to survive trust me I am on board, just right now I dont I believe we can roleplay it well enough to explain why some of us retained what we had (teaching and stuff I can understand as that changes the game) Allow us a chance to prove ourselves before we commit to any solid ideas.
User avatar
Loathed
Dreamer
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:37 pm
Character Name(s): Magnilia

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by Loathed »

I've always seen this as a bit of a double edged sword. If you are so limited in play time and schedule that you think you're never going to be able to advance are you not be default then also limited in the impact your character can have in the game to warrant said rewards? Rhetorical question there.

Much can be said for earning and retaining the various bells and whistles associated with administrative or leadership positions in the game. If one is not able to play enough to contribute or contribute in general, and use the tools that they desire, do they deserve to retain them?

I for one think the key issue here is what you do with what you have regardless of how much or how little that is. Including time or timezone.

Underlight is a very different game, we know this. It is a living game and thus the same advancement and character inactivity rules that may apply in other games may not make as much sense within this environment.
A man's character is his fate. - Heraclitus
Star Scream
Dreamer
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:51 pm
Character Name(s): Star Scream

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by Star Scream »

This issue has been resolved. The team isn't going to drasticly dumb down our characters or anything, we will all suffer loses to support the games storyline but nothing rediculous so, no worries. I guess we should have laid this issue to rest a while back but I assumed everyone knew by now that it wasn't going to be what we all initially thought. Hope this clears up any concerns.
If you win the Lotto, throw me a GRAND!
User avatar
CONMAN
Dreamer
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:11 am

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by CONMAN »

Star Scream wrote:This issue has been resolved. The team isn't going to drasticly dumb down our characters or anything, we will all suffer loses to support the games storyline but nothing rediculous so, no worries. I guess we should have laid this issue to rest a while back but I assumed everyone knew by now that it wasn't going to be what we all initially thought. Hope this clears up any concerns.

Can you elaborate on how it has been resolved? I haven't seen/heard an official stance on the matter from the team
MacEros
Dreamer
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:55 am

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by MacEros »

http://forums.clashofdreams.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=391
So what will happen when you import a character?
You may lose orbits, but you will keep your last sphere. ALL characters will be reduced to the first orbit of their respective sphere. For example, if you were orbit 57, you will now start at orbit 50.
House ranks and arts will not be carried over.
NO inventory or vault items will be carried over. No exceptions.
All arts will be imported with the character with a few exceptions:
- Teachers will keep their halos and Train levels, but Master Teachers and Sphere teachers will need to meet with a GM MT to relearn those teaching arts.
- All house related arts will be removed.
- Dream Strike will be removed.
- Arts unique to Shades of Truth (Sprint, Nexus Teleport, Enfeeblement, etc.) will be removed.
Any arts that exceed your new orbit will be reduced to match the orbit. All other imported arts will keep their previous skill levels.
Shades of Truth characters will be imported with all-Chalk avatar due to the loss of their additional color options. They may also need to edit avatar descriptions based on space limitations. Lyra characters will have the same avatar colors and descriptions they previously had.
Star Scream
Dreamer
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:51 pm
Character Name(s): Star Scream

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by Star Scream »

Well, I guess we will see what happens when the game starts. I don't want to post anything officially since that isn't my place to do.
If you win the Lotto, throw me a GRAND!
User avatar
CONMAN
Dreamer
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:11 am

Re: Concerns about new game direction

Post by CONMAN »

Thanks SS
Post Reply