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For the Next Patch....

This is a game for roleplayers. We want your ideas how how to build the better game. Post your suggestions here.
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Arnaya
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For the Next Patch....

Post by Arnaya »

Suggestions for the next patch:

- SoulShield: Actually shield somehow, whether its with Arnaya's in game project or some other tweak. But make the art actually do something besides just block Mind Blank.
- Damage art for GK's: Every other focus has at least one art (Besides Flame/Blade) that does damage. Giving Kinesis a bit of damage would be one solution that comes to mind right off.
- Blade/Flame arts do damage equivalent for the level of the art. Level 9 flame, would do 1-9 damage for example. Flame 46 would do 12 to 40, etc. Even if flames arn't upgraded, I would strongly suggest that the Blade Arts be upgraded to that standard. Hitting an opponent in melee in game is a PAIN, especially when the target is slinging chaks. At least let the blades do equivalent damage (As for the argument that it would make hunting easier... once you get the basic movements down, hunting is already REALLY easy. With a decent partner and a little bit of practice, its fairly easy to blade shams as it is).
- As the "Revisiting Maren Immunity" post
- Remove the "Unable to evoke offensive arts" ability from sanctuaries outside of Threshold. Let them still restore coherance, but make them not a complete safe zone. Leave Threshold as an utter "No Violence" zone.
- Make Sanctuaries reduce the effectiveness of all evokes from inside by 50% (Duration/Amount healed/etc).

I've got a couple other idea's too, but I have to work through them a bit more before I put them up.
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
Sidas
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Sidas »

Arnaya wrote: - SoulShield: Actually shield somehow, whether its with Arnaya's in game project or some other tweak. But make the art actually do something besides just block Mind Blank.
And make Identify Curse less worthless.
Arnaya wrote: - Damage art for GK's: Every other focus has at least one art (Besides Flame/Blade) that does damage. Giving Kinesis a bit of damage would be one solution that comes to mind right off.
They have a damage bonus, which was given to offset the whining about not having a damage art. Skilled Gatekeepers are very hard to offset due to this. It also makes their hunting easier. I don't think they need more of a buff. That's without even mentioning the OP nature of Reflect.
Arnaya wrote: - Blade/Flame arts do damage equivalent for the level of the art. Level 9 flame, would do 1-9 damage for example. Flame 46 would do 12 to 40, etc. Even if flames arn't upgraded, I would strongly suggest that the Blade Arts be upgraded to that standard. Hitting an opponent in melee in game is a PAIN, especially when the target is slinging chaks. At least let the blades do equivalent damage (As for the argument that it would make hunting easier... once you get the basic movements down, hunting is already REALLY easy. With a decent partner and a little bit of practice, its fairly easy to blade shams as it is).
Do you really want Dreiko/Blade/Thunderman flinging level 89 flames around?
Arnaya wrote: - Remove the "Unable to evoke offensive arts" ability from sanctuaries outside of Threshold. Let them still restore coherance, but make them not a complete safe zone. Leave Threshold as an utter "No Violence" zone.
Not a fan!
Arnaya wrote: - Make Sanctuaries reduce the effectiveness of all evokes from inside by 50% (Duration/Amount healed/etc).
I do like this. I also think they should offset negative effects. So if you're Poisoned, you don't get drained in Sanctuary.
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Arnaya
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Arnaya »

Sidas wrote:
Arnaya wrote: - SoulShield: Actually shield somehow, whether its with Arnaya's in game project or some other tweak. But make the art actually do something besides just block Mind Blank.
And make Identify Curse less worthless.
I've been debating that, so far the only suggestion I have is make it pick up a number of arts equal to 2+ the plat.. selected randomly from the arts currently in effect on the target.
Arnaya wrote: - Damage art for GK's: Every other focus has at least one art (Besides Flame/Blade) that does damage. Giving Kinesis a bit of damage would be one solution that comes to mind right off.
They have a damage bonus, which was given to offset the whining about not having a damage art. Skilled Gatekeepers are very hard to offset due to this. It also makes their hunting easier. I don't think they need more of a buff. That's without even mentioning the OP nature of Reflect.[/quote]

That's why I was suggesting giving Kinesis a little bit of damage. Probably less than blast (1-1, +1 to the top end per plat? So at maximum it would do 1 to 9 damage). Kinesis's cost is a lot higher and its evoke is a lot slower, so it really doesn't take away from any of the other foci, and still gives them that damaging evoke.
Sidas wrote:
Arnaya wrote: - Blade/Flame arts do damage equivalent for the level of the art. Level 9 flame, would do 1-9 damage for example. Flame 46 would do 12 to 40, etc. Even if flames arn't upgraded, I would strongly suggest that the Blade Arts be upgraded to that standard. Hitting an opponent in melee in game is a PAIN, especially when the target is slinging chaks. At least let the blades do equivalent damage (As for the argument that it would make hunting easier... once you get the basic movements down, hunting is already REALLY easy. With a decent partner and a little bit of practice, its fairly easy to blade shams as it is).
Do you really want Dreiko/Blade/Thunderman flinging level 89 flames around?
I'd be fine with it personally, make talisman less of an issue for the higher sphere's. Like I said though, I could see the argument against that... but having the blades at least scale with level properly would be very fitting.
Arnaya wrote: - Remove the "Unable to evoke offensive arts" ability from sanctuaries outside of Threshold. Let them still restore coherance, but make them not a complete safe zone. Leave Threshold as an utter "No Violence" zone.
Not a fan![/quote]

Yeah, I didn't think many people would be a fan of this. It would be pretty crippling, but there's been quite a few attacks on the sanctuaries since I started playing... so I figured that would be a neat little way of showing the effects of those :)
Sidas wrote:
Arnaya wrote: - Make Sanctuaries reduce the effectiveness of all evokes from inside by 50% (Duration/Amount healed/etc).
I do like this. I also think they should offset negative effects. So if you're Poisoned, you don't get drained in Sanctuary.
That I'd be completely on-board with. At least drained only half the amount, or have sancs give regen at the double the rate or something :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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coltdorsey
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by coltdorsey »

Couple suggestions on art degradation.
1) 2 shots of curse chakram can degrade very long protection. This may need some tweaking :)

2) If offensive arts like paralyze, scare, curse, etc can degrade protective arts then perhaps protective arts should degrade effects from negative arts like paralyze, scare, curse, etc. For example, free action should degrade paralyze/stagger durations.. Resist fear should degrade scare, protection curse, and so on. Maybe you could isolate this to art casts so that you can't degrade negative effects with 20-40 minute alterors.

Art suggestion:
GK 7th sphere art:
Protective Aura - Cost 40 will, 10 Will per tick to sustain the aura. If Will depletes, the aura fades. Duration - Slightly better than reflect :)
Aura surrounding the Gatekeeper which allows anyone within close proximity to have free action, resist fear and protection applied to them. The strength of the art application should be equal to the Gatekeeper's respective art levels.
(This essentially is a Darkmare's pain aura but swapping with protective arts that match the level of the GK's protective arts. Then add an initial cost + sustenance cost per tick.)
Last edited by coltdorsey on Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PKChrisChan
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by PKChrisChan »

- Make Sanctuaries reduce the effectiveness of all evokes from inside by 50% (Duration/Amount healed/etc).
+1, Please do this. The moment I see someone restoring from inside a sanctuary is when I refuse to engage. If you want to restore, take some risk and do so from outside a sanctuary. I am entirely opposed to risk free combative engagements.
Do you really want Dreiko/Blade/Thunderman flinging level 89 flames around?
Resource usage is a large part of combat finesse in older games like these. So no, I think Flames are fine where they are.
Hitting an opponent in melee in game is a PAIN, especially when the target is slinging chaks. At least let the blades do equivalent damage (As for the argument that it would make hunting easier...
In the all chaks world, Blades do need severe upgrades. These should out damage a chakram to add variety to combat. So I entirely agree here.
Remove the "Unable to evoke offensive arts" ability from sanctuaries outside of Threshold. Let them still restore coherence, but make them not a complete safe zone. Leave Threshold as an utter "No Violence" zone.
This could be implemented to some sanctuaries, like something along the lines of the Outer Planes sanctuaries but the majority of Sanctuaries should remain as safe places so dreamers can roleplay unharmed.

This definently has potential. EDIT: Otherwise a large group of the non-combat community we have here will never leave Threshold.
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Koi-Ajax
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Koi-Ajax »

coltdorsey wrote: 1) 2 shots of curse chakram can degrade very long protection.
Does it?
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Xererth
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Xererth »

Koi-Ajax wrote:
coltdorsey wrote: 1) 2 shots of curse chakram can degrade very long protection.
Does it?
Indeed it does
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Koi-Ajax
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Koi-Ajax »

Xererth wrote:
Koi-Ajax wrote:
coltdorsey wrote: 1) 2 shots of curse chakram can degrade very long protection.
Does it?
Indeed it does
Are you sure?
Uthanatos
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Uthanatos »

during routine curse testing, Uthy and Arny came across some anomolous results....a full retesting of curse, from talisman and arts may, in fact, be in order
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
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Xererth
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Xererth »

Koi-Ajax wrote:
Xererth wrote:
Koi-Ajax wrote:
Does it?
Indeed it does
Are you sure?
100 percent positive
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Koi-Ajax
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Koi-Ajax »

Xererth wrote:
Koi-Ajax wrote:
Xererth wrote: Indeed it does
Are you sure?
100 percent positive
Wanna bet?
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Cherokee
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Cherokee »

Koi-Ajax wrote:
Xererth wrote:
Koi-Ajax wrote:
Are you sure?
100 percent positive
Wanna bet?
Fite, fite! :lol:
23:48:24: Laviticas: (( I am going to ****ing say this now because I will not be back in the stupid game.)

22:44:20: >Jawsman evokes his own dreamquake, which is bigger than Magnilia's dreamquake.
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Xererth
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Xererth »

Koi-Ajax wrote:
Xererth wrote:
Koi-Ajax wrote:
Are you sure?
100 percent positive
Wanna bet?
They fixed it! You win! :roll:
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Uthanatos »

fixed....yeah
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Koi-Ajax »

Uthanatos wrote:fixed....yeah
I would recommend experimentation.
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Arnaya
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Arnaya »

Lol, since when do Uthy and Arnaya NOT experiment ;)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Koi-Ajax
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Koi-Ajax »

His reply implied it wasn't an improvement. ;)
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Koi-Echelon »

Stop hurting the Developer's feelings.
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Uthanatos »

On my part it's more frustration than anything, spend a lot of time testing and figuring, getting the numbers, finding the most efficient tactics and methods, and then something gets "fixed" and I have to do it all over again. I like numbers, and I don't mind doing the work to figure it all out. It's just a pain to retest everything, but it's impractical to carry on assuming everything is as it was when there has been an obvious change. Also, I don't believe everything being done is an improvement. Either we need to address the elephant in the room which is the lack of synchronization with the server, leading to severe graphic lag which makes direct combat impractical and nearly impossible for some users, or we need to develop in a direction that allows active supporters who don't have to fling chaks, rather than pushing anyone with that issue towards restoring from sanctuary. Chak flinging isn't everything, Seers get screwed with blast because all the Darks and NPC baddies wear mid-high plat reflect and then the lag makes it so that even if they THINK they have the line on the Dark's unshielded back, they still may not, the recent poison nerfs not withstanding, Senders don't have a direct offensive evoke that they can use in mass melees because firestorm and razorwind are so devastating to friendly forces. Combat in the city leans heavily towards those who have that magic connection that allows for limited and or stable lag allowing them to actually be able to use chaks semi effectively.
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
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Koi-Ajax
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Koi-Ajax »

Uthanatos wrote:On my part it's more frustration than anything, spend a lot of time testing and figuring, getting the numbers, finding the most efficient tactics and methods, and then something gets "fixed" and I have to do it all over again. I like numbers, and I don't mind doing the work to figure it all out. It's just a pain to retest everything, but it's impractical to carry on assuming everything is as it was when there has been an obvious change. Also, I don't believe everything being done is an improvement. Either we need to address the elephant in the room which is the lack of synchronization with the server, leading to severe graphic lag which makes direct combat impractical and nearly impossible for some users, or we need to develop in a direction that allows active supporters who don't have to fling chaks, rather than pushing anyone with that issue towards restoring from sanctuary. Chak flinging isn't everything, Seers get screwed with blast because all the Darks and NPC baddies wear mid-high plat reflect and then the lag makes it so that even if they THINK they have the line on the Dark's unshielded back, they still may not, the recent poison nerfs not withstanding, Senders don't have a direct offensive evoke that they can use in mass melees because firestorm and razorwind are so devastating to friendly forces. Combat in the city leans heavily towards those who have that magic connection that allows for limited and or stable lag allowing them to actually be able to use chaks semi effectively.
You likely should not develop "efficient tactics and methods" around exploiting software defects in the future which would reduce the potential of you being impacted when they're later fixed.

But to make your life a little easier, I can explain a little of how Curse changed:
* Curse was modified to balance Soulmaster evokes and Chakram usage better
* Breakthrough of Protection by Curse was modified to account for how long of a base duration Curse has in relation to other negative arts
* Strength calculations were altered, particularly in how subsequent evokes were handled by someone who is already Cursed

All-in-all these changes were meant to benefit Soulmasters, particularly those who are support types. It was expected they would be noticed rather quickly after the previous patch due to the way the breakthrough defect was being exploited prior to it. For this, I apologize and will attempt to work with Seeker to ensure all future patch notes are fully detailed to allow for full in-character discovery of new features within 10 minutes of patch release. :roll:
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Vistael
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Vistael »

We need to develop in a direction that allows active supporters who don't have to fling chaks, rather than pushing anyone with that issue towards restoring from sanctuary.
We have a good group of individuals in this game who will do that anyways. These individuals -avoid- combat at any costs. These players wouldn't participate in combat even if more crucial support roles were introduced.
Chak flinging isn't everything, Seers get screwed with blast because all the Darks and NPC baddies wear mid-high plat reflect and then the lag makes it so that even if they THINK they have the line on the Dark's unshielded back, they still may not, the recent poison nerfs not withstanding, Senders don't have a direct offensive evoke that they can use in mass melees because firestorm and razorwind are so devastating to friendly forces
You always seem to ignore the numbers advantage players have over the DarkMares/GM Baddies, Reflect is an absolute necessity to level the playing field. Offensive support arts such as Abjure/Curse can turn the tides in battle much better than what you give credit for. Especially since that in this version darks can be paralyzed/blinded etc. Additionally, all of these arts and roles that you mention are still extremely powerful in Player vs. Player (No GM) fighting. Poison Cloud is still overpowered vs. other players. As for blast, this art is still excruciatingly painful and annoying especially when multiplied by however many Seers in the room. FateSender arts are sad and can use some upgrades I do agree.

Personally, I feel the GMs (except for a select individual) level the playing field pretty well in regards to combat.
Combat in the city leans heavily towards those who have that magic connection that allows for limited and or stable lag allowing them to actually be able to use chaks semi effectively.
Now here I can agree. I could only imagine that this has to deal with a good deal of issues like how the server code is implemented. This code is 20 years old and older games all seemed to have this same issue: Scrambled disorganized code, Lag on position updating, player connections, lack of client side prediction. Hell, some implementations were fragile dolphins which if one thing was tweaked it would break the entire game.

Lag does indeed give inherent advantages to some players(Storm'cannon) and cripling disavantages to others(Uthanatos).

My suggestion to you is to roleplay forging of a Chakram with 9th plateau Curse on it(If that is possible) or another equally enabling talisman. Maybe the GMs will support it.
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Tember
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Tember »

Maybe for the next patch.....you can all appreciate all the hard work that was done.
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Arnaya
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Re: For the Next Patch....

Post by Arnaya »

I can't argue about the work that has been done at all. There was a request for ideas a while ago is all, which is why I put this up to start with. I really do appreciate the work that the dev team has put in, and can't protest about Curse projectiles being knocked down. Those were pretty overpowered.

On the subject of Poison Cloud... It is an extremely powerful art, and I would fully support knocking back its damage a bit (though not below regular poison standard).
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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