MPlayer or equivalent. Recruitment for Underlight

[Gerroz]

Now that we are really close to a working game, we still face the biggest obstacle this game has had the last decade and then some. Attracting new players. Lets face it, our community is too small for how this game was designed, and we need new players for it to survive.

We need to get the game out there in the spotlight. As a free game this should be possible. Wasn't there talk of a new MPlayer being launched? OR perhaps some other free game hosting site of sort.

Or perhaps there is a plan regarding this already?

[Koi-Raven]

This idea is one that sounds good on paper, and is probably not worth the effort in actuality.

With our current setup, we have amazing (and free) hardware/hosting that provides similar resources to that of a large web-based company would need for their needs. A move to the thrice resurrected MPlayer, or something equivalent would mean taking a couple of steps backwards for the relatively small gain of player exposure.

Now, I'm not discounting player exposure and I am in agreement with the overall point of this thread, which is the necessary evil of player recruitment to build a thriving environment that the UnderLight world so desperately needs. I do, however, think it needs to be approached in a way that does not involve a change to the infrastructure that we have worked to rebuild.

To this end, I think it may be worth further investigation of the Greenlight program with Steam. (http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/abou ... ection=faq). It offers no gurentees and will entail quite a bit of effort from developers and the community alike, but it may be something we pursue. No promises, obviously.

At the end of the day, we are aware of the concern and will absolutely work towards tackling the issue as we continue to progress.

[Brother Timothy]

Just a suggestion, if you could get the old e mail lists from Lyra and SOT, an e mail to the old address would still reach a number of the old players. I know I still get mail from that old address.
Barring that advertising would be your best bet in attracting new players.

[Sidious]

What's up guys, Sid/Stone here. As you may remember I ran PR for a little while for Lyra UL and Gerroz and I were just talking and he had my gears turning. All that I had back in the day for promoting UL is nowhere near what you have today to attract people. As much as I learned back then about marketing, I've learned more still, and I'm putting it to use for my own business and in businesses I'm associated with. New media marketing is tough to convince old school guys to get into, but they need to do it to grow.

Here's what I think would make for a successful strategy for a project like this one.

Don't centralize it. Don't have one guy/gal trying to run your PR and make things happen or prod others into doing. Instead, figure out ways your devoted community can bring people in.

Use new media. Don't bother with anything else, the traditional paths won't work for this type of thing. Use what is available to you, for free, and with great fans like UL has always had.
-Find someone that wants to run a youtube channel reminiscing/reviewing old school games. Notice I didn't say UL? The channel should be about all games pre true-3d and even some current games that are in the spirit of old school. Then, put links in the description and a simple ad at the end of each video to point to UL as a game they can try to capture some of that old school flavor

-Twitter, get your devs on twitter. Be active.

-Flickr/tumblr/instagram. Everyone can get in on this. Get on there and share your love of roleplaying and old school games. Especially old and new pics of UL w/ links to the game or the official dev run accounts. Like/friend/add anything relevant. All roleplaying and old school gaming stuff.

-Facebook. A few of the community should get together and start an old school gaming or roleplaying related group. Or both! Get on there and run something independent of this UL page, and be active, post interesting stuff, and every so often sprinkle in your UL experiences and pictures.

Forums. For people who still like to use forums, hop on some of the forums dedicated to the subjects I've already mentioned, become active, and have your forum signature include a link for this page.

Community. You guys all still love this game after all these years. (Crazies!) So for everyone who does one of these things, jump on it, get over there and support them. Like/comment/subscribe on their posts, join the community, get the ball rolling so that it becomes its own organic thing that people find on their own.

This is how you will gain a cult following. Don't worry about getting massively to cover you (they won't), or MMORPG.com (they would). Get to the core of your audience right away and use the (I hate saying it) viral potential of social media to reach people. For this project, your best PR department is your community.

-Eric

[Onyx]

Sid, you nailed it.

[Koi-Spark]

Word of mouth is honestly one of the greatest assets we have, and all of that comes from the player base. If you like Clash of Dreams, tell your friends about it. What's so great about it? It's the roots of RPG - not the scripted, AI/NPC-driven stories of your typical RPG. It's hugely player-driven and it's one of the best (and only) true role-playing game out there. It's old school, so you don't need some next-gen monster gaming rig or console. You just got a cheap, bare-bones laptop for school? UL will probably run on it.

Kids enjoy playing. Many of us were kids when we started playing. Many of you have kids of your own now - what a fun activity to share with one another!

I have a few friends who love scheduling game nights. Bored of board games (no pun intended)? D&D got you down? Let's try this MMORPG - get them hooked on it!

There's a local facebook group for game developers. Once we go live, I plan on inviting the group members to check out the game. Maybe some of them will be inspired with ideas for new next-gen UL games, or maybe even be interested in joining our dev team.

Throw links to the Clash of Dreams pages on facebook and twitter on your own wall. Never know who might see a share and think they're just bored enough to try it out. If you have liked playing for so long, it can't be bad!

There are a few players that came in for Shades of Truth and never played in the Lyra years. Ask them what got them to try it and why they got hooked on it.

Regardless of the amount of advertising and publicity we do for the game, it all comes down to the community. The player base we have is what's going to make or break us. Make new players feel welcome! Help them. Teach them. Perhaps we can arrange for in-game rewards for player referrals.

Anyways, enough out of me. Time for bed!

Koi-Spark

[Tary]

Use new media. Don't bother with anything else, the traditional paths won't work for this type of thing. Use what is available to you, for free, and with great fans like UL has always had.
-Find someone that wants to run a youtube channel reminiscing/reviewing old school games. Notice I didn't say UL? The channel should be about all games pre true-3d and even some current games that are in the spirit of old school. Then, put links in the description and a simple ad at the end of each video to point to UL as a game they can try to capture some of that old school flavor

-Twitter, get your devs on twitter. Be active.

-Flickr/tumblr/instagram. Everyone can get in on this. Get on there and share your love of roleplaying and old school games. Especially old and new pics of UL w/ links to the game or the official dev run accounts. Like/friend/add anything relevant. All roleplaying and old school gaming stuff.

-Facebook. A few of the community should get together and start an old school gaming or roleplaying related group. Or both! Get on there and run something independent of this UL page, and be active, post interesting stuff, and every so often sprinkle in your UL experiences and pictures.

This.

Fact is: you can get on Steam or MPlayer or $service (that's Perl-speak for a variable named service) but all that's kind of unnecessary. Getting on those services comes with unnecessary baggage. Buying adspace just doesn't work anymore.

I used to think UL's biggest problem was its graphics, but honestly I don't believe that. Minecraft is hella popular and it's not because people are SUPER INTO LEGO. It's just plain fun. The thing is we need to focus on what makes UL fun.

Underlight is a player-driven game which is powerful and also not a little bit scary. I think there are things that the GMs in coordination with dev can do to make the game "more fun" but at the end of the day the thing that makes the game fun is the desire to make it fun. This sounds corny but it isn't. This needs to be applied.

What irked me so much in Underlight was that there was this focus on busy-work and sitting around and chatting. But that's not what the game and the advancement system is about. Consider the following two tasks for platting your GK to 40:

Speak to 10 gatekeepers. Find out what they like most about being a gatekeeper. Host an event in AoE sanc about why being a gatekeepr is super fun and why dreamseers suck.

Compare that to:

Bring me Tzayak's head.

Or even

Bring me a level 40 GK chak.

All 3 are totally valid tasks. But the first one is just boring as crap and the latter 2 are fun and entirely attainable. Here's the thing: being a teacher is ALL ABOUT BEING SELFISH. THIS IS A GAME AND IT'S TIME TO PLAY IT LIKE A GAME AND PLAY IT TO WIN. Being a teacher isn't about the tender look on your student's face when they crack the problem. Maybe it is in real life, but screw that: WE'RE PLAYING A GAME SO PLAY IT TO WIN. If I'm a teacher I play to win: I order my students around, tell them to serve the house I'm in because that's good for me, I tell them to bring me items, shields, whatever. I build a giant pyramid scheme.

If you play the game to win you'll make a fun game. Tasks SHOULDN'T BE HARD. THEY SHOULD BE FUN.

I realize I'm ranting here a little, but what makes Underlight great is that it's so player-controlled. So let's make it fun for each other.

...oh, and yeah, I guess post about stuff on Facebook or whatever.

[Sidious]

Yes to everything tary said. There's nothing wrong with playing another way as well, just not getting hung up trying to make people "work" for it. Being creative with teaching is what sets this type of thing apart from "kill ten rats" but recognizing that creativity doesn't have to mean

[Koi-Spark]

What irked me so much in Underlight was that there was this focus on busy-work and sitting around and chatting. But that's not what the game and the advancement system is about. Consider the following two tasks for platting your GK to 40:

Speak to 10 gatekeepers. Find out what they like most about being a gatekeeper. Host an event in AoE sanc about why being a gatekeepr is super fun and why dreamseers suck.

Compare that to:

Bring me Tzayak's head.

Or even

Bring me a level 40 GK chak.

All 3 are totally valid tasks. But the first one is just boring as crap and the latter 2 are fun and entirely attainable. Here's the thing: being a teacher is ALL ABOUT BEING SELFISH. THIS IS A GAME AND IT'S TIME TO PLAY IT LIKE A GAME AND PLAY IT TO WIN. Being a teacher isn't about the tender look on your student's face when they crack the problem. Maybe it is in real life, but screw that: WE'RE PLAYING A GAME SO PLAY IT TO WIN. If I'm a teacher I play to win: I order my students around, tell them to serve the house I'm in because that's good for me, I tell them to bring me items, shields, whatever. I build a giant pyramid scheme.

If you play the game to win you'll make a fun game. Tasks SHOULDN'T BE HARD. THEY SHOULD BE FUN.

I realize I'm ranting here a little, but what makes Underlight great is that it's so player-controlled. So let's make it fun for each other.

...oh, and yeah, I guess post about stuff on Facebook or whatever.

I agree fully. Every character you role-play is different. The same goes for teachers. You should task students the way YOUR character would task. If your character is deep and thoughtful and a bit aloof, so should the quests. If you're an egotistical, selfish warrior with a love of power, then task like it. "To prove you're worth my time, bring me Tzayak's head. I don't care how you get it." Do you have to collapse Tzayak yourself? Nope. Can you steal it from someone else, or a house? Go for it - that sounds like a fun RP. Do you befriend Tzayak and maybe he gives you the essence as a gift? Well, I feel that's unlikely and I personally wouldn't advise it, but the great thing about UL is it never hurts to try (unless you're dealing with Tzayak). If you mess up and things don't go the way you planned, then congratulations, you're playing Underlight.

There used to be a standard back in the day that no two quests should be the same. Why the hell not? Sure, it may get boring for people to get the "bring me a chakram worthy of a warrior like me" task every time. But if your house needs prime energy to initiate some new people, or ascend a new ruler, then why not task all of your students with "Bring me 500 nightmare essences, or the equivalent in energy."

Should every task be able to be accomplished solo? Not really. I was never a fan of quests that depended more heavily on other players than my own work and participation, but there is a good balance there somewhere.

Quests are a transaction. A compromise. Mutual benefit. Are you willing to do this quest to get this art/plateau? If not, ask for a different quest. Offer suggestions on what you ARE willing to do. The teacher may tell you it's that or nothing. So find another teacher willing to work with you. What's the benefit of being a teacher if you can't get stuff in exchange for knowledge?

I can't imaging disciplining a teacher for giving a quest so long as it was -something-
Would most people find the quest you made too easy? Sure. But did it add something to the RP environment? Did you personally benefit from the quest? If so, then you're doing things right. Does that mean you sphere a player and plateau all of his arts because you gave the quest "join my house" and he just got initiated? Hell no. Arts aren't free and giving stuff away may get you in trouble in-character for abusing the halo and such. But I don't see being incredibly selfish as abuse of the halo. Quite the opposite. Giving stuff away for free with no benefit for yourself is the real abuse.

[Sidas]

This.

Fact is: you can get on Steam or MPlayer or $service (that's Perl-speak for a variable named service) but all that's kind of unnecessary. Getting on those services comes with unnecessary baggage. Buying adspace just doesn't work anymore.

I used to think UL's biggest problem was its graphics, but honestly I don't believe that. Minecraft is hella popular and it's not because people are SUPER INTO LEGO. It's just plain fun. The thing is we need to focus on what makes UL fun.

Underlight is a player-driven game which is powerful and also not a little bit scary. I think there are things that the GMs in coordination with dev can do to make the game "more fun" but at the end of the day the thing that makes the game fun is the desire to make it fun. This sounds corny but it isn't. This needs to be applied.

What irked me so much in Underlight was that there was this focus on busy-work and sitting around and chatting. But that's not what the game and the advancement system is about. Consider the following two tasks for platting your GK to 40:

Speak to 10 gatekeepers. Find out what they like most about being a gatekeeper. Host an event in AoE sanc about why being a gatekeepr is super fun and why dreamseers suck.

Compare that to:

Bring me Tzayak's head.

Or even

Bring me a level 40 GK chak.

All 3 are totally valid tasks. But the first one is just boring as crap and the latter 2 are fun and entirely attainable. Here's the thing: being a teacher is ALL ABOUT BEING SELFISH. THIS IS A GAME AND IT'S TIME TO PLAY IT LIKE A GAME AND PLAY IT TO WIN. Being a teacher isn't about the tender look on your student's face when they crack the problem. Maybe it is in real life, but screw that: WE'RE PLAYING A GAME SO PLAY IT TO WIN. If I'm a teacher I play to win: I order my students around, tell them to serve the house I'm in because that's good for me, I tell them to bring me items, shields, whatever. I build a giant pyramid scheme.

If you play the game to win you'll make a fun game. Tasks SHOULDN'T BE HARD. THEY SHOULD BE FUN.

I realize I'm ranting here a little, but what makes Underlight great is that it's so player-controlled. So let's make it fun for each other.

...oh, and yeah, I guess post about stuff on Facebook or whatever.

Yes. Tary. Yes. The Underlight "teaching" system is outdated and a waste of time. Tasks, selfish or helpful, are the way to go!

[Gerroz]

I'm with Tary and Spark here. I always loved the teaching system of Underlight, but I loved it even more when I figured out that I could pretty much make anyone do whatever I wanted, as long as the reward was right. The true power of the halo is to make people do things that drives the game forth, especially conflict. Conflict makes the game fun. That is not to say that noone likes a theory task, I have enjoyed those myself also, cause it makes you think, and it expand on the universe of the game's history and intellectual level. This is much up to the teachers but also the one that ask for tasks. It is up to you to accept a task or not, so if you hate it, refuse. Choose your tasks for what makes the game enjoyable for -you-.


The teaching aspect is important to keep people playing, however the intention of this thread was how to make people find the game in the first place. Eric (Sid) had some very good points when we spoke and I'd like to thank him for posting them here. I hope mope people with good ideas share them and that they are acted upon. We need players.

[Koi-Tus]

Hijack much?

[Sidious]

I no rite?

But they do have a point, it is one thing to get people to try it out, it's another to have them stick around. It's up to the community and the devs on this project to make it a truly enjoyable experience (I suggest nipping drama in the bud). I think you should definitely open up a discussion around that.

[Koi-Alastar]

In regards to Teaching, I don't think anyone on the current team has ever played a teacher - GM or personal character - that gave tasks that were "hard" simply for the sake of being hard. Can every single task be "go get me a chak"? No, of course not. But I do agree that there is some value in giving things that are fun and attainable by one's self.

I am not of the opinion that every task must incorporate you and a bunch of friends emoting some cool 'stuff' that people forget about in 10 minutes. That certainly became very stylish. But some tasks absolutely should...and some players WANT to do that.

That being said, there is a different standard for teachers played by GMs and those played by the players. It would be much more difficult, for example, for a GM MT to task "Go collapse so-and-so" without that seeming a little taboo. Similarly, a GM MT would have no rational need for people to go get him chaks or shields, etc. Players, however, absolutely. If you want to play a teacher that uses the halo for selfish means or to further your house, there's nothing stopping you as long as you are appropriately aiding the advancement system.

We don't have NPC quests and we have mandated gating every 9th orbit and every 9th skill in an art. It is an intrinsic part of the game...but it doesn't need to be falsely glorified into teachers imparting their limitless wisdom upon the masses. You're helping people level, that's all. It should be a fun challenge.


As per marketing, I like the idea of the youtube channel especially...any volunteers for this?