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can we get a few agos please ?

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kendo
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can we get a few agos please ?

Post by kendo »

I realize most in the game don't need experience or are powerful enough that it doesn't matter but some of us do, and the hunting spots have dried up and it only seems to be getting worse. I don't mind grinding agos but I really can't even do that anymore. With no end in sight it's frustrating.
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SnowAngel
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by SnowAngel »

I would agree, whether you need experience or not...Agos would be nice to have.
I realize this (revenants spreading out and taking over) must be part of the whole RP but hampering dreamers growth doesn't help when they suffer losses in battles with Zaxun or whomever.
There are times when we stop.. We sit still... We listen and breezes from a whole other world begin to whisper.
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Malarky
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Malarky »

Revenants do not have a 100% spawn chance where they spawn. At least they didn't. I don't know now whether the tables for mares per plane have replaced all the mares with revenants or not. If you want an Agoknight, trap a revenant and "despawn" it with prejudice. If you can't kill a revenant and want to do this all solo, that may prove impossible.

Instead, I would suggest some changes to revenants to make them a working asset instead of an effective barrier to playing.

Proposed changes for a long-term tweak of Revenants:

Revenants no longer evoke all mass effect arts randomly but when hit by a status effect will build a countdown to evoke firestorm that gets shorter the longer the duration of the status effect applied to them(IE, Very Short is normal speed, Short is +15% increase, Medium is +20% speed etc). Strategic status effect evocations would ensure the countdown does not speed up too much.

Revenants randomly stop chasing after you for 2 seconds but they continue attacking you with a chakram. All strategies that exist to fight revenants that don't involve trapping them basically involve kiting them to hit them. Having them randomly stop chasing but still attacking would make engaging them in this strategy more entertaining.

I don't want to discourage trapping. The AI is bugged in that it can be trapped, but that has always been a strategy in ways to hunt mares of all sorts and sometimes it's the only way to kill them due to their sheer difficulty.
If we're discouraging trapping however, the Revenant AI needs to respond to situations where it's basically running in place trying to attack you but failing to hit you without mass arts or chakfire by increasing the mares propensity for shifting left and right to compensate for these trapping strategies.

I'd like to see a level of modification for some of the AI mares, making them possible to engage without feeling like you have to exploit their poor coding to beat. The only mare I see as acceptably OverPowered is the Horron and there's a roleplay reason for that mare type to be so strong.

Emphant
Hits hard but is easy to collapse. Acceptably difficult as it introduces new players to enemy AI.

Bogrom
Hits weak but has a lot more dreamsoul and can go invis. Acceptably difficult as it introduces new players to enemy AI that strategizes.

Agoknight
Hits hard and has a lot of dreamsoul. Occasionally blasts but no longer fires a chakram with paralyze as it used to. Acceptably difficult as a beefy mare that requires patience, caution and commitment. I personally think this mare could be improved upon by making it respond to art evocations other than blade swings with an increase in blast frequency.

Shamblix
Hits hard. Has lots of dreamsoul, paralyzes, curses and can not be hurt from the front. Occasionally also has vision. Personally I would like to see a modification of this AI behavior to give it an opening on purpose. Currently trapping, using bouncy chakrams, firestorm and hunting in groups of 2 or more coordinated players is necessary to take this thing down. To make the mare less predictable and possible to hunt solo while discouraging trapping I'd like to see it drop aggro for a second every few seconds when two conditions are met: The mare is not hit and the player is within range to be affected by an aura like fear. The mare would potentially expose itself to players closely engaged with it for a second before it re-engaged the player.

Horron
Hits hard. Has lots of dreamsoul, paralyze aura, can not be hurt from the front, chakrams are bouncy and blind....I don't know what else this thing does. It hurts. I never survive it for long. Short of trapping and firestorming, this mare requires groups to kill. I consider this mare type a totem. Not to be hunted but to be a demonstration of capabilities establishing a justified concern when faced with a darkmare of the same caliber.
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SnowAngel
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by SnowAngel »

Piggy backing a little bit on what Malarky said regarding the Revenants..

If they are going to evoke mass arts, then they should at least have to stop and evoke like dreamers do.. and perhaps it should be toned down...
Revanants that give xp like a bog should only have "x" arts to evoke
Revanants that give xp like an ago could have the bog arts plus additional
Sham ones bog + ago+ additional
Horron - could have all of them..

The playing field is very uneven with them at the moment... the idea is pretty cool, but honestly all of arting up and mass evokes on you for 250xp ( when you may not be sure whether its bog or ago when you go after it? I'm not) isn't worth the effort.
Just some thoughts and suggestions.
There are times when we stop.. We sit still... We listen and breezes from a whole other world begin to whisper.
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Malarky
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Malarky »

SnowAngel wrote:Piggy backing a little bit on what Malarky said regarding the Revenants..

If they are going to evoke mass arts, then they should at least have to stop and evoke like dreamers do.. and perhaps it should be toned down...
Revanants that give xp like a bog should only have "x" arts to evoke
Revanants that give xp like an ago could have the bog arts plus additional
Sham ones bog + ago+ additional
Horron - could have all of them..

The playing field is very uneven with them at the moment... the idea is pretty cool, but honestly all of arting up and mass evokes on you for 250xp ( when you may not be sure whether its bog or ago when you go after it? I'm not) isn't worth the effort.
Just some thoughts and suggestions.
The mare type of revenant is dependent on the type of mare that normally spawns where-ever the revenant is.

A revenant in threshold caves wings will always be of agoknight equivalent.
A revenant in the first room of The Lost Caves will always be a bogrom equivalent.
I have yet to find a revenant that spawns where emphants are the norm.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Inzoum »

Some Agoknights would indeed be appreciated. As a returning player now hailing from Belgium, I'm somewhat doomed to play off-peak, and since my character dropped down from Orbit 59 to 50, I've got A LOT of experience to catch up on, and a lot of time to hunt for it, but no decent hunting grounds.

Shamblixes and Revenants are out of the question as they are too dangerous to hunt alone and the benefit of it is too small, and the risk of losing my character's Sphere from successive collapses is just too great.

I'd say maybe add in some Agoknights in the off-path rooms of inner planes.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Uthanatos »

What Blade said. Honestly, the spread of revenants and their overpowered nature seems intentional. Think of it as a carrot and a stick, we were given the carrot, pride, glory, fame, and that didn't work to get people working together to get rid of them, so now, we get the stick, as long as revs are around, hunting is going to be a pain. Honestly, yes they do make it difficult to gain xp, but the only threat during Zaxun's invasion shouldn't be Zaxun himself, he has destroyed several cities and the threat of losing spheres seems to be far more effective than the risk of dreamstrike.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Arnaya »

There are currently 3 plans in progress to try and rid a plane of the revenants. 2 on different planes, 1 more meant to start taking them out directly and in mass. Keep your eyes open and pitch in for these. There are also apparently still 2 agoknights in the game.

On the Rev's front, The only problem I have with them as a controller is the Emphant level items that drop from ALL of them. Take down a Horron Rev.... get stuff that you'd only see drop from an Emphant or bogrom. That gets a little irritating, at least low level chaks and Chalk Abyss level dreamsoul (and other elems) would be great.
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Malarky
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Malarky »

Arnaya wrote:There are currently 3 plans in progress to try and rid a plane of the revenants. 2 on different planes, 1 more meant to start taking them out directly and in mass. Keep your eyes open and pitch in for these. There are also apparently still 2 agoknights in the game.

On the Rev's front, The only problem I have with them as a controller is the Emphant level items that drop from ALL of them. Take down a Horron Rev.... get stuff that you'd only see drop from an Emphant or bogrom. That gets a little irritating, at least low level chaks and Chalk Abyss level dreamsoul (and other elems) would be great.

Not going to reveal details but revenant essences have a value not being considered in these posts.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Arnaya »

If it's what i think you mean... that requires not being on hostile terms with Zaxun or being openly involved in trying to wipe him out.
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Dina »

They shouldn't abjure. That is my only complaint.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by kendo »

abjure is the worst as they somehow seem to know what to cast an instant later. this is the wild card that prevents most of the hunting. dying once in 15x doesnt make it worth it.

And some of you who are beyond the point that killing ago's is meaningless to you i dont expect to understand. Ken's TRYing to get to a level where he can combat zaxun and the revenants and its simply not possible as a freesoul.

For the record I don't mind the trashed shields and drain on my alt supply required to fight an ago level revenant as much as the fact that I'll get the abjure and near simultaneous fear or stagger that takes most strategy out of the fight.

And yes people are trying to get rid of them myself among them. I've got a sneaking suspicion they'll be around as long as zaxun is though. Which is going to be quite awhile at the speeds things are moving.
Last edited by kendo on Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kendo
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by kendo »

malarky wrote "The mare type of revenant is dependent on the type of mare that normally spawns where-ever the revenant is.
A revenant in threshold caves wings will always be of agoknight equivalent.
A revenant in the first room of The Lost Caves will always be a bogrom equivalent.
I have yet to find a revenant that spawns where emphants are the norm."

Thats all good except its wrong. the ago spots in thresh caves are as of yesterday bogram level, the day before they were ago level.
There is a boundary to men's passions when they act from feelings; but none when they are under the influence of imagination. -Edmund Burke

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Malarky
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Malarky »

kendo wrote:malarky wrote "The mare type of revenant is dependent on the type of mare that normally spawns where-ever the revenant is.
A revenant in threshold caves wings will always be of agoknight equivalent.
A revenant in the first room of The Lost Caves will always be a bogrom equivalent.
I have yet to find a revenant that spawns where emphants are the norm."

Thats all good except its wrong. the ago spots in thresh caves are as of yesterday bogram level, the day before they were ago level.

That's interesting. You should explore why that might be....Maybe ICly searching for where those Bogroms might have come from. ;)
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Tary »

If people want them gone, then do something to rid the city of them.
As it stands they are spreading... who knows where to next. Threshold Pits? The Teaching Guild? :twisted:
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Dina »

Do not act like people are not trying. Kailee has helped some of those times. There are current Rp's out there trying. People are just asking for a few f'n agos. That's all, or get rid of the abjure. ORRRRR make the xp worth while. Up the xp amount?
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Malarky »

Dina wrote:Do not act like people are not trying. Kailee has helped some of those times. There are current Rp's out there trying. People are just asking for a few f'n agos. That's all, or get rid of the abjure. ORRRRR make the xp worth while. Up the xp amount?

This is a situation that may require more monitoring.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Tary »

Dina wrote:Do not act like people are not trying. Kailee has helped some of those times. There are current Rp's out there trying. People are just asking for a few f'n agos. That's all, or get rid of the abjure. ORRRRR make the xp worth while. Up the xp amount?
Consider the lack of reward motivation to expedite their removal.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Noidea »

kendo wrote:And yes people are trying to get rid of them myself among them. I've got a sneaking suspicion they'll be around as long as zaxun is though. Which is going to be quite awhile at the speeds things are moving.
If these are Zaxun's army, or one part of it, then it should be like a war; they're gradually taking over the city unless they're stopped, and the GMs should be expecting players to find ways of removing revenants from the territory they have "captured", and acting on any RPs to that effect whenever they think they're any good, and if we can manage to drive out the revenants from some of the places they're in then Zaxun is that much closer to having to flee the city. (And from a practical point of view, if we manage to remove them from even 2 or 3 rooms that would otherwise have agoknights in them, that would already make far more opportunity for middling-sphere players to get XP.)

They certainly shouldn't be just there for visual effect to mark how serious things currently are; they're the only part of the Vanguard business that we can interact with, most of the time.

I don't know whether this is the current intention or not. Is it?
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Noidea »

kendo wrote:And some of you who are beyond the point that killing ago's is meaningless to you i dont expect to understand. Ken's TRYing to get to a level where he can combat zaxun and the revenants and its simply not possible as a freesoul.
...
And yes people are trying to get rid of them myself among them. I've got a sneaking suspicion they'll be around as long as zaxun is though. Which is going to be quite awhile at the speeds things are moving.
That might be one bright spot for you and me - since the revenants reappear after they're collapsed, merely beating them in a fight won't be enough. I expect someone would probably have to defeat them in a fight as PART of any attempt at removing them, I wouldn't expect anything else in a game where people work hard building up their fighting skills. But there will also have to be a certain amount of witchcraft/mad science/whatever you like to call it. And you don't need to be a high sphere to do that.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by kendo »

agreed
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Aileron »

Tary wrote:Consider the lack of reward motivation to expedite their removal.
Okay this is a little silly. Part of the community is voicing something and is in essence being ignored. I don't think anyone is saying "Hey give us a plane of agos." They are merely asking for a couple so they themselves can continue progressing in the game. Because that's what this comes down to in the end is a game. XP is gained and through that new abilities can be learned. Just blatantly saying "No you can't have that you have to do what everyone else is doing, tough." Is a poor way to handle the situation and hopefully it can be looked at from a different point of view.

Not everyone wants to sit in thresh or around a group all day. Sometimes people just want to go and get some XP and try and gain an orbit or two. Having access to at least a couple of manageable mobs would keep things from going stagnant and in some cases, getting almost boring.

I don't really see why this is such a big request that people are asking.
Last edited by Aileron on Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Dina »

Exactly Aileron. That was what I was trying to say lol, but he missed it completely!
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Arnaya »

Even at 5th sphere, Arnaya has a hard time taking down Ago Revenants. Their turn speed is just fast enough that they can land a few hits with blade/projectile while circling even, and add to that their mass arts... they're pretty equipment intensive to take down. Arnaya's going to have to be getting some items forged just to be able to reliably hunt them.

As for the lack of Ago's, there are still two that Arnaya's been told about in game (Albeit in remote areas). For people hunting shammies, a weak Will elem and a charge from a Vision alteror can do wonders for their huntability. The sham and Horron Revs can be hunted the exact same way that their equivalent mares can be (arguably, Horron Revs are easier to hunt than their equivalent mare). So experience is actually still not much harder to get, even weak dreamsoul elems (5 to 15, 1 to 40, 2 to 40, etc) make them huntable for anyone with basic fighting ability.

As for the Revenants changing locations, it does happen... though not usually unless multiple revenants of different types are collapsed on the same plane. They shuffle around the open spawn points on the plane. The biggest loss to be felt in regards to Revenants, is in good quality elemens and mid level chakrams. A few people hunt them routinely in game, so if you'd like some tips for doing so.... ask around IG. A few of the characters around can help, and are usually willing to group up to hunt them :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Re: can we get a few agos please ?

Post by Koi-Wish »

I will put some more emphasis on what some are saying here.

The rev's were never meant to be long term. There is a current RP. What your complaining about is exactly a point in their existence that we knew would occur. The threat that they would spread thru-out the entire dream like an invading force. Just like IRL you can't ask an invading force to stop invading and put back what was their before they invaded. You must do something about it. We know there have been a number of efforts, they have not gone unnoticed. Your in the midst of a huge story line that's been brewing for a couple of years. And the Rev's are much better with a group effort, which quite honestly, I was the one pushing for them to be the threat level that they are to push group efforts. Originally I wanted them to give 0 xp to really make them annoying.

Group hunt. Roleplay. And hang in there... But mostly still try to have fun, yah they suck... they are supposed to.
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