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Plats

This is a game for roleplayers. We want your ideas how how to build the better game. Post your suggestions here.
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Tember
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Plats

Post by Tember »

When the gm's or an elder notice you doing a roleplay or something that is productive to the game, putting in efforts towards a roleplay that is plat worthy.

If they have taken notice, they could then approach you at any time and ask you to trade in one of your quests that you already have in return for the plat, as reward.
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Re: Plats

Post by Cuero »

I could see this happening with something like "Locate Dreamer 10" but anything more than that I doubt contributing toward an RP is going to count, mostly because most RPs are already task-driven.

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Tember
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Re: Plats

Post by Tember »

Good point, though I have seen a whole group become involved and only one person getting the plat.
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Arnaya
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Re: Plats

Post by Arnaya »

That would be kind of nice, especially given that I've heard some of the GM characters mention its possible to raise your arts (as a character) without going through a teacher. This would be a nice way to reinforce that. Maybe a guideline of "If the GM would award more than 5 RP points for an RP, the character can be granted a 10 or 20 plateau" or something like that?
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Re: Plats

Post by Toregord »

Wait, people are doing things for plat's and to think I did a whole rp for nothing not even experience..
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Re: Plats

Post by Uthanatos »

I would like to see something for improving arts in the RP rewards. I mean RP points are slow to accumulate, but doing something like for Learns Required orbit in RP points, then plat level in RP points for each plat, so self training would be a very long process, but entirely possible.
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Arnaya
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Re: Plats

Post by Arnaya »

Toregord wrote:Wait, people are doing things for plat's and to think I did a whole rp for nothing not even experience..
Most of the stuff that Arnaya does is just because it seems like fun, or is something that she see's needs to be done. I know there's a few others around that do the same :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Re: Plats

Post by Noidea »

I agree with both Tember AND Arnaya. The two things needn't be mutually exclusive, in fact they can be to each other's advantage: if you work on something in game just because, and it leads to enjoyable stuff for people, why shouldn't you get a plat for that, fully as much as for something that you did just for the sake of a plat? In fact I made a thread suggesting this same thing a few months ago, there was some discussion then: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2067

In Shades of Truth, the GMs sometimes used to give out XP bonuses for doing or participating in something in game, if they happened to be around at the time. It wasn't every time, and wasn't meant to be - it was more of a surprise gift - but it was good. As a dreamer who didn't do much fighting, I got a lot of my XP that way, at one time or another.

Just one change that I'd make - Tember suggests it should be for things that you already have tasks for. I don't know why she said that, but I'd say it would be even better for things that you HAVEN'T got tasks for. If you have a task, you're presumably willing to do that task if you need to, and might even be enjoying it and not want to drop it; whereas if you haven't, it may well be because so far you've been unable to get one at all by normal means. I'm backed up with Resilience plateaus to 30 at the moment, for instance - I can't find anyone who can train them. That kind of thing happens, especially if you're an off-peak dreamer, and anything that helps mitigate glitches of that kind has to be good.
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Re: Plats

Post by Tember »

I said that because, there have been many many times where I've gotten a task and really procrastinated and dreaded doing it.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get the plat for the spontaneous roleplay.

Also another reason is because, you'll have the quest codi in your pack and just hand it over.

A lot of people prefer roleplays over doing some kind of busy, study type work. I don't like theories, I don't like a lot of those kinds of tasks, and some times when forming an event it is harder to get folks in one place at the same time when scheduled. But then there are times when there are ten people in one spot and a spontaneous roleplay can just happen.

That's the kind of thing I'm referring to, also, the people that jump in and help when people are doing planned roleplays. I've seen people jump in and help people with their sphere tasks and basically so most of it, take Dreiko for instance. And also people like Arnaya and BladeSlayer that just come up with roleplays to have fun.
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Re: Plats

Post by Cuero »

Well, with the exception of probably Arnaya, Uthanatos, Purple Lace and a select few others, nearly everything that happens in the City is driven by a task in their pack, which would result in a plateau, etc. I don't know if that can really be argued. People do these off the wall things because somewhere buried in their pack is Show Talisman 10 "Take a few dreamers and show them something neat" or whatever. As far as Tember goes, she likes fighting and not standing around in Sanctuary, you can probably ask all your task writers to make you do something along those lines (without dipping in the PK world) and reject all others :P

I simply think a plateau is too much for simple participation. Invis GMs are usually around and you can log in to find "You've been granted 5,000 experience in anonymous roleplay grants!" or something, which is always nice, and the validation some people want for the effort they put in to a roleplay. Only works if you aren't maxed, though :P
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Re: Plats

Post by Tember »

I disagree!

Participation is well worth a plat. Expecially since over half of the task given can be bs"d there way through without doing -anything-
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Re: Plats

Post by Clarity »

Tember wrote:I disagree!

Participation is well worth a plat. Expecially since over half of the task given can be bs"d there way through without doing -anything-
This is the wrong argument to make if you're trying to push for rp participation plats. Tasks aren't usually all that difficult. Bsing your way through them is just laziness, and honestly really disrespectful to both the teacher who wrote them AND the community at large. If your bsing your way through most tasks then either the tasks aren't worth doing - in which case you should ask for a re-write, or their not something you're interested in or enjoy doing - in which case you should ask for a re-write. It's not that hard to at least pretend you care about the effort other people put into the game and put at least a little bit of effort into things. UL isn't a new gen MMO where you need to be max level to participate in the content. There's zero need to be 9th sphere with all your arts maxed beyond personal want to be.

I'm not saying all tasks should be hard. It's perfectly acceptable to have/write/complete tasks that take you 10 minutes to think about or 5 minutes to go talk to someone about. There's nothing wrong with a 10 or 20 plat that legit only takes you 4 minutes one random afternoon to do. But the point of your suggestion? Plats for Participation in bigger things? is almost entirely negated by your statement that most tasks aren't even worth the effort to SPEND those 5 minutes. I'm sorry, but why should someone be rewarded for playing the game, when at no other time would they bother?

Participating in the game world at large isn't all that hard. It's 9/10ths of the actual game play. Asking to be rewarded for showing up to play once and a while is akin to saying, "I'll only come to the raid if I get first dibs on the loot. I don't care if it can't be completed with out me," is shitty as hell. It's a jerk move. While that's fine for a characters motivation, "What's in it for me," and what not, it's absolutely not okay as a player motivation. It's disrespectful to the community, GM team, and breaks the whole point of the game itself.

Rewards for players who always come out? Who always give their best effort to support ongoing storyline elements? They came out because of their love of the game, and it shows. Their participation helped make something fun and awesome for everyone else involved. In those cases? Yes, sure, absolutely surprise them with a plateau or a bonus experience grant. A rare thank you for the effort spent, because they would have put in the effort even if they got nothing out of it. But if your whole point in wanting rewards for playing the damn game is "Well, I can get a free plat!" then you're missing the entire point of what makes the game worth playing in the first place.
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Re: Plats

Post by Tember »

Clarity wrote:
Tember wrote:I disagree!

Participation is well worth a plat. Expecially since over half of the task given can be bs"d there way through without doing -anything-
This is the wrong argument to make if you're trying to push for rp participation plats. Tasks aren't usually all that difficult. Bsing your way through them is just laziness, and honestly really disrespectful to both the teacher who wrote them AND the community at large. If your bsing your way through most tasks then either the tasks aren't worth doing - in which case you should ask for a re-write, or their not something you're interested in or enjoy doing - in which case you should ask for a re-write. It's not that hard to at least pretend you care about the effort other people put into the game and put at least a little bit of effort into things. UL isn't a new gen MMO where you need to be max level to participate in the content. There's zero need to be 9th sphere with all your arts maxed beyond personal want to be.

I'm not saying all tasks should be hard. It's perfectly acceptable to have/write/complete tasks that take you 10 minutes to think about or 5 minutes to go talk to someone about. There's nothing wrong with a 10 or 20 plat that legit only takes you 4 minutes one random afternoon to do. But the point of your suggestion? Plats for Participation in bigger things? is almost entirely negated by your statement that most tasks aren't even worth the effort to SPEND those 5 minutes. I'm sorry, but why should someone be rewarded for playing the game, when at no other time would they bother?

Participating in the game world at large isn't all that hard. It's 9/10ths of the actual game play. Asking to be rewarded for showing up to play once and a while is akin to saying, "I'll only come to the raid if I get first dibs on the loot. I don't care if it can't be completed with out me," is shitty as hell. It's a jerk move. While that's fine for a characters motivation, "What's in it for me," and what not, it's absolutely not okay as a player motivation. It's disrespectful to the community, GM team, and breaks the whole point of the game itself.

Rewards for players who always come out? Who always give their best effort to support ongoing storyline elements? They came out because of their love of the game, and it shows. Their participation helped make something fun and awesome for everyone else involved. In those cases? Yes, sure, absolutely surprise them with a plateau or a bonus experience grant. A rare thank you for the effort spent, because they would have put in the effort even if they got nothing out of it. But if your whole point in wanting rewards for playing the damn game is "Well, I can get a free plat!" then you're missing the entire point of what makes the game worth playing in the first place.
Um. What? I think you missed the sarcasm in my last comment. And you completely missed my point I am trying to make.

First of all. This is a very valid argument for my suggestion.

I called it bsing a task, but you call it getting an easy task. Which is equally the same. So your point is moot.

Disrespectful to a teacher to do a task that THEY gave you, and be able to "bs" - " do it easily" You seriously call that disrespectful? Apparently you've never gotten an easy task. And if you have I'm sure you did not return it and say it was too easy.

"Pretend to care about about effort other people put into the game and put at least a little bit of effort into things?" I feel like you are attacking me over a mere suggestion. I think everyone cares about this game or we wouldn't be playing it, plain and simple.

My point. Participation in bigger things, smaller things. It doesn't matter. My suggestion is for out of the ordinary role play effort. Why should people be rewarded for playing the game? Because simple. It's a game, people are rewarded when completing a task, which at times has to do with leading a roleplay, why not be rewarded for helping lead a roleplay? Or help participate in one.

I think you need to take a step back, and see that this IS a game, the roleplay point system is almost exactly like my suggestion. The gms giving xp is almost like my suggestion. I'm only suggesting plats for players who display something other than their norm. so no, I'm not missing any points in this damn game.



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Last edited by Tember on Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Plats

Post by Tember »

Here is a perfect example of what I mean by "bs" "easy to do" tasks..

By Clarity: I want you to go on a counter crusade! The Notorious Flower has been spreading rumors! Stupid ones too! For every ridiculous rumor you come across spread by that silly thing, counter it with something equally silly.

Now, I won't actually do this task because, well I just won't. But, now you see where I am coming from. If something like this is worth a plat. Then so should putting in some sort of effort towards something productive be.
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Re: Plats

Post by Arnaya »

Might have gone a bit overboard with holding up a quest like that, just sayin :)
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Re: Plats

Post by Uthanatos »

Plats are part of a structure, I think allowing self advancement through RP is different from willy nilly handing out plats. As far as easy tasks, every task is easy and every task is hard, it depends how much effort you put into it and how much thought you give it. I had a task to spike people's drinks, and I could have done just the minimum and spiked a few drinks for a few people I knew would play along. Instead I took the initiative to become the bartender for the night and come up with new and creative drinks to mess with everyone and see who played along, it's a lot more thought and effort making 30 different drinks rather than spiking three, but it was more enjoyable for those who were there and for me. Before I get too far off track, a plat for participating is basically the same as just giving them to you for logging in, you get RP points when you participate and do creative things, believe me lots of them. If you feel that participation is worth something, think of it this way, when you show up to help your fellow dreamers, they are more likely to show up and help you. I do my best not to rant about people wanting things easier because from what I understand advancement was quite strict back in the day, and by those standards we do advance quickly and have things easy. Either way, you get out of the teaching system what you put into it, flat out. I only think plats are a viable RP point reward (with a hefty cost) because self advancement is not an unheard of idea, creation and advancement of arts comes from somewhere, but not spontaneous plat gifting because you showed up to something, seriously.
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Re: Plats

Post by Noidea »

For data's sake:
Before I get too far off track, a plat for participating is basically the same as just giving them to you for logging in, you get RP points when you participate and do creative things, believe me lots of them.
Doesn't happen to me.
(I get RP points sometimes, maybe 5 or 6 a week if I've been playing a lot, but often I get none for doing something quite active and then another time I'll get one just for diligently emoting reactions to something that happens - >X gasps, that level of (un)interestingness. I assume this is because of the restrictions, i.e. the limited selection of people I meet have used up their 4 for the day or they've already given me one that week. It certainly never becomes consistent enough that there's any point thinking about trying to deliberately "work for it" - it's a lucky dip.)
I simply think a plateau is too much for simple participation. Invis GMs are usually around and you can log in to find "You've been granted 5,000 experience in anonymous roleplay grants!" or something, which is always nice, and the validation some people want for the effort they put in to a roleplay. Only works if you aren't maxed, though :P
Doesn't happen to me.
(Never to my memory been given a roleplay XP grant since CoD launched, though correct me if I'm wrong.)
Not saying this to accuse anyone of lying, these presumably ARE true for Uthy and Cuero. The point is, which of these rewards that are asserted to exist already ARE available for everyone, and which depend on your circumstances (time of play, etc.)?

By Clarity: I want you to go on a counter crusade! The Notorious Flower has been spreading rumors! Stupid ones too! For every ridiculous rumor you come across spread by that silly thing, counter it with something equally silly.

Now, I won't actually do this task because, well I just won't. But, now you see where I am coming from. If something like this is worth a plat. Then so should putting in some sort of effort towards something productive be.
Ah - important distinction here. Is the important thing that it should be productive IC, or that it should be productive OOC? The example given is clearly not productive IC, but it's very productive OOC as it causes lots of fresh chaos to amuse players. (Personally, I hate rumours in Underlight, but that's because I play off-peak and am not there when the big things happen so I have to constantly find out what's going on from other people, so when there's an outbreak of rumours it means I have to wade through a thick layer of misinformation and depressing bitchiness. But that's personal.)
If you feel that participation is worth something, think of it this way, when you show up to help your fellow dreamers, they are more likely to show up and help you.
But we're talking here about something your fellow dreamers CAN'T currently help you with, even if they wanted to - since, even if teachers, they're not currently allowed to give you a plateau unless you had a task from them for it in advance - so no amount of participation and joining in and helping people will get you anywhere with that.

Anyway, the point is, surely, whether doing something that's as productive and as difficult as the task would be, but without having the task in advance, should be worth as much as doing it when you DO have a task in advance. Unless the real achievement you're being rewarded for is the Herculean effort of finding and then re-finding a suitable teacher... :-D
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Re: Plats

Post by Sidas »

I think I've gotten an XP reward once in CoD, which I assume was due to the fact I took over a faltering RP that was for someone else's task. It's certainly not a common occurrence, nor are roleplay points, honestly.

Most tasks are busy work, so I don't see why a participant couldn't be rewarded with a similar thing. For example, Avris used to give minor dreamsoul plats (think locate dreamer) to people who would play messenger for him, which served multiple purposes of involvement and reducing stupid tasks. Shades of Truth would reward teachers with plats based on how many grants they had (I think that was the marker).

Reducing the amount of busy work tasks allows people to focus on the bigger objectives. It's not rocket science.
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Re: Plats

Post by Uthanatos »

I'm gonna guess that I have a different experience with teachers and tasks, and honestly if I got a task that I felt wasn't sufficient for the plat, I would overdo it, or ask to have it rewritten. Tasks shouldn't be "busy work" they should help you grow as a dreamer or help progress and shape the dream, it's not just Spheres that affect things, for instance Sil gave me a task to teach a University class for a plat, it drives her characters goals, helps Uthy grow and encourages interaction between players. It's not a huge task, a half hour or and hour long class is pretty easy to manage in the grand scope of things. I've had tasks that were written lightly because I was becoming too serious, tasks written for things I was going to to anyways. When it comes down to it, seeking a plat is seeking a plat. Random plats are an odd thing, what if I'm not progressing that art intentionally, what if I needed that unplatted for testing or data, and most importantly, I don't do what I do for a tangible reward most of the time, it's about the people, the community and above all the city for Uthy. Just my two cents
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Re: Plats

Post by Noidea »

Uthanatos wrote:I'm gonna guess that I have a different experience with teachers and tasks.
I think you must do, yes. Yours sound good. (So does what Sidas says Avris used to do - that's not the same thing as what the OP mentioned, that's a perfectly legal task-given-in-advance, but it has some of the same result of getting you back to doing things that actually relate to what's happening.)

Sidas put my view of it much more clearly than I could manage. When I see the words "busy work tasks" (don't know if this is the same thing that Sidas himself had in mind), what I think of is tasks that are not so much insufficient - they often take me a lot of work and puzzling - as pointless-seeming, just requiring you to talk impressively about something that's of no obvious interest or use to you or to the teacher. "Ask at least 4 dreamers how they think the art of Deafen works", "Think of 5 noisy things in the City and give me your thoughts on the matter", "What does Recall mean to you?" - that kind of thing. (Those aren't actual real tasks, but I've had similar ones.) I'm not really sure how to deal with that. I'm not sure it makes IC sense to ask for a different task on the grounds that this one is boring. OOC, it's all meant to be a game and therefore that's a valid reason, but not IC! I suppose you could look blank and say "Why?". You might even be very earnest and say that at a time like this you want to be doing something to help the City, philosophising is a luxury.

In fairness, I've had fewer like that in CoD than I used to in Shades of Truth. I think everyone's got better at it and thought of more original ideas by now. So those busywork tasks aren't as much of a scourge as they were, but I do still sigh a bit at having to spend so much time writing a detailed consideration of something I'd never have thought of doing anything about otherwise and don't particularly want to now, either, and that I won't take any further once the task is over.

Maybe these are questions that the teacher has reasons for wanting to know the answer to themselves - for instance, they might be doing experiments on Deafen and want my character to do the research for them? If so, I'd love you to say so at the time. That would make it exciting at once, and make it more likely I'd come back with something relevant. I love ferreting out information for some actual purpose, but it's hard to enjoy researching, or to know quite what to report about, a subject that as far as I know nobody has a reason for wanting to know about!

(I particularly never know what to do with "What does so-and-so mean to you?" questions. 'Well, the same thing it means to most people, surely? Do you want the dictionary definition?' Do you think I can just treat it as if it was "Tell me something, anything, about you and so-and-so", e.g. if it was Restore I could describe an interesting freak reaction to Restore I'd once seen or tell them about an idea I have for a healing-related experiment?)

P.S. I agree with Uthanatos that if these after-the-fact plats were introduced they shouldn't be given out with no warning, the teacher or elder should ask first whether you actually want that art platted.
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