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Bleeding

This is a game for roleplayers. We want your ideas how how to build the better game. Post your suggestions here.
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Dina
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Bleeding

Post by Dina » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:43 am

I was talking to Mac last night and he came up with something good! I basically said to take bleeding out because why have 2 arts do the same (Poison & Bleed), then Mac said that was fair and said that bleeding should drain your focal element instead! Havin Poison and Bleed on at the same time, is annoyingggggg. Poison does enough dmg. I love his idea!

Can we do that? Would suck for Dina if she kept losing resilience, same with Kailee with lucidity!
"I have this weird sort of Gemini thing where I can really be empathetic and a loving person. But if you piss me off, I can be one of the meanest, most sadistic people." - Wilhelm Reich
Dakkoth
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Dakkoth » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:41 pm

I like this idea a lot. But Bleeding sort of sounds like bodily harm. Perhaps it is Poison that corrupts the thoughts of the dreamers in that if the evoker chooses Will for example with the little option button next to the focal elements that is, then that is what is drained on the affected foe.

In any case, however it is done, I like the idea A LOT. This should be brought as an idea to this Thursday's SoulMaster meeting; Gathering of the Cauldron! It's about Poison and Antidote!
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Uthanatos
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Uthanatos » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:24 am

Changing poison to affect secondary pools really hobbles them, SMs only have one damage art, much like Seers. A change like that to poison would really relegate them to more of an anti-support role, keeping seers from blasting or senders from firestorming, but even then if they have time to art, they have time to tap an ellie.
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Raas
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Raas » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:35 am

Cool idea, and there should be some difference between poison and bleed.

*That being said the SM strategic imbalance on Trap NM needs to be addressed prior to any tactical art changes, imo.
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Dakkoth
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Dakkoth » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:55 pm

In my opinion, there has to be some benefit of choosing one class over another. If every class can do everything, then it really shys away from choosing a focus to begin with. In that manner, the game forces cooperation and social interaction. Which for a roleplaying game is a good thing.

I like the new Poison with damage ranges. I really do. Bleeding is quite similar. I like Dina's and Macobas's idea about having bleed take away focal energy instead of dreamsoul. I think that would be great. It sounds like "bleeding" should be something associated with loss of dreamsoul where as Poison could be any really. I suppose one could say they are bleeding out one's Resilience. So my point may be moot altogether.

Great idea...I think it would be good to separate Poison and Bleeding more.

As for SM trap balance, the extra energy in the essences in my opinion closes the gap. Though SoulMasters still have an advantage....so what? We can't reflect...we can't ward....we can't recharge...we can't invis….we can't razorwind….etc. Major arts. That's what they are all about.

This message was written with no hostilities or puns intended. Much love for you, UL players and Koi team!

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Raas
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Raas » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:44 pm

I have created a visual aid to help better explain why the conversation around Trap continually fails to address its imbalance: It's not a tactical art, its the only art that directly impacts essence/hour intake in the house primes. Arguably Drain can be in the same category, with the caveat that you need to be holding the enemy's prime and be going to town on it for a while (aka never).

Image

A couple possible solutions:

1) Energy orbs - SOT implemented these well. Allowed for energy gain via gen sitting, thereby raising everyone's potential energy/hour.
2) Rejiggering the essence arts (Cleanse, Drain, Banish, Imprison etc.) to act more like Trap.
3) Nerf trap - Not a great solution imo.

PS - I apologize for thoroughly hijacking this thread on bleed. I'd also add Sacrifice into the "strategic" category, though energy/hour on that is still not in the same league as Trap.
~Ra'as
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Tentacle
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Tentacle » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:39 pm

I like the suggestion of a Bleed and a Poison. In this case, bleed sounds as if it would drain dreamsoul as for our purposes it is the lifeforce. But, that's Poison. If we change it to a "leech" and allow it to drain other resources now we're looking like Vampiric Draw.

Sorry if I am being pedantic with wordplay.

Perhaps "bleed" could have a random chance to shave off ANY of the resources? I believe it was attached to, Razorwind, at one point in time? That keeps it, rare'ish, and mysterious. As is Vampiric Draw which is in the same family if we're talking about drains, leeches, "DoT's".
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Dina
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Dina » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:16 am

I will say that if Trap Nightmare got nerfed, you would have many pissed off players lol. You would have to get rid of the monthly drains for one. 40k+ per month is A LOT, so be careful on what you ask for!

Bleed is not even a focal art and there is no way to take it off (I guess Abjure). If you get hit by Bleed so many times it breaks your Protection which is the only counter, other than PA I guess and Sable Shield (because of the Protection art in it). Since it is not a focal art, you can't select which element to take from the person. Bleed is only in talisman, so Dakkoth that wouldn't work. :(

I hate Bleed and just rather see it gone period, unless it does something different.
"I have this weird sort of Gemini thing where I can really be empathetic and a loving person. But if you piss me off, I can be one of the meanest, most sadistic people." - Wilhelm Reich
Bort
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Bort » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:53 am

This effect should require chocolate and complaining to get better.
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Dina
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Dina » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:08 pm

Bort wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:53 am
This effect should require chocolate and complaining to get better.
I'm gonna smack you Borti Boy!
"I have this weird sort of Gemini thing where I can really be empathetic and a loving person. But if you piss me off, I can be one of the meanest, most sadistic people." - Wilhelm Reich
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Yuritau
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Yuritau » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:38 pm

I don't know why bleed even exists in the first place. Why create a new effect just to do what an existing effect already does? Is there any reason to keep it?

And Ra'as, yes Trap Nightmare is powerful, but it's also basically 50% of what soulmasters are FOR, so of course they're better at it than anyone else. Why would that need to change?
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Tentacle
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Tentacle » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:35 pm

Yuritau wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:38 pm
I don't know why bleed even exists in the first place. Why create a new effect just to do what an existing effect already does? Is there any reason to keep it?
After finding out more about it in its current use and form this is my question too. I can see it has a purpose. I thought it was a cool idea that RazorWind 'caused a bleed. But if it is poison by another name, why? Can Soulmasters have Recharge then since we are good with essence? F I T E M E !

And Ra'as. Recruit a Soulmaster. You come for Magnilia's Trap and we're going to have a dance off or something. Yes, when one works it up high, it's awesome. However, to get substantial gains, especially with all the other options now, one has to put in time and effort. Come @ me Br0! <3 :mrgreen: :geek:

Apologies for the de-reail. Ra'as deserved a poke.
"To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Dina
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Re: Bleeding

Post by Dina » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:39 pm

Tentacle wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:35 pm
Yuritau wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:38 pm
I don't know why bleed even exists in the first place. Why create a new effect just to do what an existing effect already does? Is there any reason to keep it?
After finding out more about it in its current use and form this is my question too. I can see it has a purpose. I thought it was a cool idea that RazorWind 'caused a bleed. But if it is poison by another name, why? Can Soulmasters have Recharge then since we are good with essence? F I T E M E !

And Ra'as. Recruit a Soulmaster. You come for Magnilia's Trap and we're going to have a dance off or something. Yes, when one works it up high, it's awesome. However, to get substantial gains, especially with all the other options now, one has to put in time and effort. Come @ me Br0! <3 :mrgreen: :geek:

Apologies for the de-reail. Ra'as deserved a poke.
Agreed! I've been telling them to recruit an SM and they don't listen. Dina ended up having to recruit herself into AoE, to help them NOT close. No need to have two poisons.
"I have this weird sort of Gemini thing where I can really be empathetic and a loving person. But if you piss me off, I can be one of the meanest, most sadistic people." - Wilhelm Reich
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