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A couple things...

This is a game for roleplayers. We want your ideas how how to build the better game. Post your suggestions here.
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Dina
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A couple things...

Post by Dina » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:48 am

The devs did a great job changing the whole chat thing in game. Don't get me wrong. I love it and you did great; however, for this game, it makes it hard to play. I have given it time and tried to work with it.
***I am afraid of even fighting. I use keybindings to go from one talisman to another and if I talked, I forget that I need to click in the black box.
***Someone stated that when they are whispering with someone, they have to scroll to the front just to make sure they are whispering and not putting it in open chat. I have to do the same.
***When I am talking and I like to use locate, sense, etc a lot, I have to make sure I click into the black chat box to use my key bindings for arts. Yes, we can use the E and T still, but if I want to emote after talking, I have to do the /me or click in the black box to hit e. To me, it takes away the UL experience. I am not sure how many times I have evoked an art when trying to talk lol.

UL is unique and doesn't need to be like the other games. I wish there was a way to click a box if you want it that way or the original way. I am sure there are some that like it. I just think it makes it harder.

Like I said, you all have done great with the game and giving us all this new stuff. This is the only thing I can't get used to and please don't take this as a bash.

Now, another thing...
I think AoE needs to be looked at. Either the players of that house need to start playing, or lose the house. Letting people be double crested and being able to "double dip" isn't fair to the rest of the community and also allows a dead house stay open. Instead of having a house of vaults, they have two houses of vaults, yet you took away our closed room that the caretaker closed for us. Having people be double crested to keep your house open...it isn't right. The Bastion has worked their asses off to have a successful "house" and that is due to the "players". It is not easy being part of a house that is at odds with most of the City, but we are doing it and have for a long time now! THAT is an accomplishment! Go ahead and take away our ONE "locked room", whatever makes you happy. BUT DON'T FORGET who is trying to keep this game alive.
"I have this weird sort of Gemini thing where I can really be empathetic and a loving person. But if you piss me off, I can be one of the meanest, most sadistic people." - Wilhelm Reich
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Arnaya
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Arnaya » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:16 am

you can also use a double tap of escape to get out of the chat line.

The whispers thing, that was always kind of a problem. You can still get to the whisper by double clicking on the targets name... so its just a matter of checking right away if the name is in there. you can also use the "Home" key to immediately jump to the beginning to the text line if you need to double check. Likewise "End" takes you to the very end of it.

I don't know if any of that would help you, but... there it is anyway.

AoE... I kind of have to agree. Though, I wouldn't say just shut it down. Re-instituting the prime drain would be a good way to go about it, i think. If they pick back up, and get back to sacrificing stuff... they'll be good. If not, then the houses closes naturally when it's prime runs dry. That way also, all of the houses are held immediately to the same standard, and no one is picking on one house or targeting them.
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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PKChrisChan
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Re: A couple things...

Post by PKChrisChan » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:31 am

Prime strength is not difficult to maintain. I could single handedly gather all energy gains on one SM with 50+ trap by playing once a week or two.... Which would defeat the purpose.

It would be a pseudo way of minimally keeping houses open like the old rule was. Friends keeping each other's houses open logging in a min every two weeks.

I say real activity like participation in events, nightmare collapses, training, platting, running events should be the real keys to activity.
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Koi-Cricket
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Koi-Cricket » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:10 am

Thank you for the constructive opinions and suggestions made in this thread.
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Cedar » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:28 pm

PKChrisChan wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:31 am

I say real activity like participation in events, nightmare collapses, training, platting, running events should be the real keys to activity.
100% agree with this. I really think this should be the metric for determining house openness or not. All of those listed things foster interaction between players and community a whole lot more, than the lone trapper who can quickly gather up the required strength for the week.

On the same note, I hope at some point the guidelines for opening new houses gets another look at some point. Even if a potential house is short on numbers, if they're pushing role-playing content and involved in things like what's on that list, I think it's worth giving them a chance to open their house.
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Koi-Lupine
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Koi-Lupine » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:29 pm

I will attempt to address a few things in this post. As I am relatively new here I am still undergoing the process of learning everything that came before, and what was done away with; when it comes to policies, failed or otherwise.
PKChrisChan wrote:Prime strength is not difficult to maintain. I could single handedly gather all energy gains on one SM with 50+ trap by playing once a week
This is actually why any type of strength requirements would be imbalanced. A house with an active SM can easily handle any type of strength requirement place upon their house. A house without one would suffer greatly if a strength requirement were scaled with a SM's trap in mind. But, it is still a thought. Should an open House drain energy from somewhere? I believe it would make sense, as everything within a house (such as the Mission Board) should be powered from -somewhere-, a House's Prime seems like the most likely source. But deciding upon that amount is a chore when you must maintain the idea of balance.
PKChrisChan wrote:I say real activity like participation in events, nightmare collapses, training, platting, running events should be the real keys to activity.
What would be the rubric for activity? This is another hurdle to this line of thinking. Because how do you decide what is meaningful or frivolous activity? There are certain generic activities, which you mentioned, such as raising your arts and so on. But, would you measure an event consisting of three people interacting with each other on the same scale as 15? Is there a difference between something with a widely felt impact versus a smaller or almost negligible one, but was enjoyed by those involved? There is no easy answer to this question... but I have been thinking about it.

There is a certain point where people begin to feel punished, even when they are attempting to keep something alive. These same people will feel something is unfair when they're giving their all but cannot meet an arbitrarily assigned value. While others will feel it's unfair if they meet that value, while others don't. It would be easy to just assign a policy governing <insert issue here> and enforce it to the letter, but deciding what is "fair" can be difficult.

That's all I have time to comment on at the moment. Rest assured I do think of these things. Certain things can be decided on fairly easily, requiring nothing more than a tweak here or there. Others require lengthy discussions. Though, it is always beneficial to have opinions of the player base when making decisions on gameplay/features.
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Arnaya
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Arnaya » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:30 pm

The house primes draining every week was happening for a while there, though i think it was being done manually by one of the gm's. It should be possible to code that i'd think. I definitely don't think it is "The Solution", merely one thing to help. I'd suggest that the cost be fairly low, like 100 a week for an initiate. say 500 a week for each guardian, and 1000 for each ruler? Or 250 for each guardian and 500 for each ruler. Something like that. Yes, an SM can spam that off in a couple of hours... but that SM HAS to come in to do it, and be around for a couple of hours. Either that, or others have to be around for a bit every couple of days to do some stuff in game. There's also the possibility of doing house ceremonies or whatever to strengthen the prime (I understand that was done in SoT)... which also means people being around and being somewhat active.

It isn't a quick way to shut houses down if they go inactive... but all of the houses do that. I'm less willing to get on board with the Activity Gauge measure, partly because... if that were to be used. All of the current houses would be shut down, including the bastion. Promote activity rather than punish inactivity basically is i guess what i'm saying :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Cherokee
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Cherokee » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:47 pm

Prime draining is broken for a few different reasons. First of all, adding up the amount of current members and removing X amount of strength is more of a punishment for having a big house than anything - while there’s less of a drain on houses with fewer members. Secondly, it becomes a chore for SM trappers to work on getting energy when RPing should be primarily enforced over arduous time sinks. Third of all, it also becomes a job for the GMs to keep track of this and make sure to remove the energy each week/month.

I like Arnaya’s suggestion about house ceremonies. Maybe it wouldn’t add strength, but for RP purposes it would keep it “alive” for that month or so. I also have an idea that could potentially help. In SoT, house leadership was required to keep the team updated about what their house was up to. This could be done again about every other week through email and/or in game RP reports.

This, accompanied with planned events posted on the forums will make activity easier to track. Also, house minimums should make a comeback. Perhaps a little lower than 6, maybe 4?
”My candle burns at both ends; It will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—It gives a lovely light!” - Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Cedar » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:47 pm

Koi-Lupine wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:29 pm
What would be the rubric for activity? This is another hurdle to this line of thinking. Because how do you decide what is meaningful or frivolous activity? There are certain generic activities, which you mentioned, such as raising your arts and so on. But, would you measure an event consisting of three people interacting with each other on the same scale as 15? Is there a difference between something with a widely felt impact versus a smaller or almost negligible one, but was enjoyed by those involved? There is no easy answer to this question... but I have been thinking about it.
One thing I really enjoyed from the SoT/EoC era was to have an in-house, non-teaching GMs, that serve as a guide for the house. While they're not meant to initiate all roleplaying coming out of that house.. instead have them there to assist, and check in on things. Things like house missions, or goals, either internal or external.

I think part of the challenge now currently is, 'what holds a house accountable for staying open'? Right now, it's maintaining a prime strength, which for the trapping reason above, this isn't hard to do and not always interactive. Additionally, I agree with Cherokee that by pushing for a more aggressive prime draining schedule, this has more un-intended consequences for larger houses.

I really think the solution is to go more with a more roleplay and story focus for the houses, and their opening and closing. It's also not something that requires a certain members population for doing this. If House Y has three active members, and they're doing a lot of work with events, ceremonies, etc.; they shouldn't be punished, for pushing their house's goals and missions.
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Dina
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Dina » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:37 am

I am liking how this is staying civil!

I understand the whole SM/Trap deal; however, Arny is right. We put in the time and effort and if a house does not have an SM to help them out. Isn't that saying they should change things a bit? Making deals with SM's actually helps. There was a time when Dina offered OOSM strength for a price. She spoke with her Ruler about it first. They had no issues with it. It is making people be responsible. You want to keep your house open? Perhaps you need to work on your social game. So really, there is no imbalance with this in game. I'm still pissed about sacrifice and how it works lol. Trap and Abjure is what MADE an SM popular and very useful.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Coraal and Elmer...I wish they were still around! They were always nice to Dina and Kailee! :lol: :lol: I don't want them to lose the house, but at this point...the house shouldn't even have made it this long by all these rules that have been thrown out time after time. Perhaps coming up with rules and make these rules stick might be better.
"I have this weird sort of Gemini thing where I can really be empathetic and a loving person. But if you piss me off, I can be one of the meanest, most sadistic people." - Wilhelm Reich
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Cherokee » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:16 am

Cedar wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:47 pm
It's also not something that requires a certain members population for doing this. If House Y has three active members, and they're doing a lot of work with events, ceremonies, etc.; they shouldn't be punished, for pushing their house's goals and missions.
From what I understand, houses are supposed to be one of the primary driving forces for RPs. The ideals and beliefs encourage people to engage. I don't see why 2-3 people would require a Stronghold. Too often, I've seen them used as club houses when they get that low. That's not to say that an individual or a few can't accomplish anything. I loved the idea of Guilds when they were introduced, because I think those are better suited for smaller groups. However, I do agree with adding more roleplay when it comes to opening/closing houses. The current method has become default and impersonal. Each house opening and closing should make an impact on the game in some way.
”My candle burns at both ends; It will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—It gives a lovely light!” - Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Uthanatos
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Uthanatos » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:45 am

A few things, I think the persistent drain is a good thing, at least to promote activity, get people out hunting or trapping or doing something. These days, a sender brings in almost as much as a soulmaster and anyone soloing shammies is making a decent kickback too. As for it being a penalty to larger houses, it's not designed for one SM to carry. The costs are by member because members are expected to contribute. One-hundred is almost accidental in the course of a month, just hunting for chaks or ellies. Part of that system was to dissuade houses from cresting people just to crest them and make inactive members a drain on the house, which, personally, I liked.

As far as the closing of houses, I really feel that a personal touch is best, giving them warning, handling it on a case by case basis. I've seen houses with two active members doing more than houses with ten, so numbers don't mean much at that point. The guilds...eh, I think the concept had potential and that's all I'll say there.
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Re: A couple things...

Post by -Lacie- » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:11 pm

Uthy wrote:
The guilds...eh, I think the concept had potential and that's all I'll say there.
Well, mebbe you should check out what the Guilds are doing before you use a past tensed verb in there.... just sayin'.

~Lacie~
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Uthanatos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 pm

It was more in reference to the fact that the guilds aren't really guilds, they are secondary facilities for a house, rather than a place to build towards opening a house with that singular purpose.
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PKChrisChan
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Re: A couple things...

Post by PKChrisChan » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:04 am

Uthanatos wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:45 pm
It was more in reference to the fact that the guilds aren't really guilds, they are secondary facilities for a house, rather than a place to build towards opening a house with that singular purpose.
Hmmm. There aren't enough players to denounce that possibility quite yet. However, people are more interested in doing what they did in previous versions of the game...so *shrug*
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Dina
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Dina » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:21 pm

I do agree that it should be about who puts in the effort for a house and not "numbers" like Uthy said, but I don't agree with double cresting or even triple cresting to keep houses open. If the "main" people are not putting in the effort, not being around etc. The house should just close.

I do thank the GM's for bringing back the old chat interface (well soon in a patch). I really do appreciate it.
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Re: A couple things...

Post by Janus » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:13 am

My character (and several others) allowed the Bastion to hold different crests. Not to keep a House open. :)

Dual crests will never work (except for a spy RP) and I know this because I've tried it.
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