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Sphere Supports

This is a game for roleplayers. We want your ideas how how to build the better game. Post your suggestions here.
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Dina
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Sphere Supports

Post by Dina » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:18 pm

I can't remember if anything had been changed on this or not, I know that self train was changed, but considering that the community is way much smaller, how does one get their sphere supports for higher spheres? There will always be conflict and conflict will always keep others from advancing at this point. Long ago when many played, you really didn't have to worry much about getting sphere supports, but now...not so much.

Like I said, I am not sure if it has changed or not, but if not, can we look at it? Not that Dina is ready for any supports, she can't even get an elder or high enough player to dream at the same time to get a task lol, BUT it might help others.
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Cedar
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Cedar » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:42 pm

I think this is a really good point to bring up. With a smaller population, the number of support requirements in general, whether its for sphere supports, or even guild/house creation needs a review.

I don't really know if this happening in game or not, but maybe also start training new sphere teachers to help out with this? But that's more of a question that should be address with the in-game teaching leads. Maybe there's some mechanism built in that tracks active sphere teachers, and when that amount starts to fall below some threshold (no pun intended), there's a training push for more sphere teachers.
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Arnaya
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Arnaya » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:51 pm

There's already a Lot of sphere teachers around, but the support requirements could probably be knocked down a little. The house and Guild requirements I wouldn't suggest knocking down Too much though. Each by one or two would probably be fair.
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Cherokee
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Cherokee » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:15 am

The current sphere requirements start at 2 supports for 4th, plus 2 every sphere up (if I'm not mistaken). So it goes 4th - 2, 5th - 4, 6th - 6, 7th - 8, 8th - 10, and 9th - 12. On an average day, the game will see about 5-7 players. We're lucky if we have 10-15 during peak hours and special events. Our current player base is around 30 -give or take- that actually log in occasionally? (Right now it seems lower than that, but let's go with that for now. Now consider out of those "30 players", we have 5 houses that each have an IC reason to have problems with at least one other house. The current sphere support system restricts our roleplays and forces the evil/bad guys to make nice with the good ones, and vise-versa. It halts progression for those that aren't willing to break character to get supports from others that normally wouldn't want them sphering. And it brings about a little OOC for people that do. In Lyra, I can see the current number making sense, but right now it should be drastically reduced. This is what I propose:

4th - 1
5th - 2
6th - 3
7th - 4
8th - 5
9th - 6

Alternatively or even additionally, we could give Support Sphere to everyone. That way we'd have more of a chance at getting supports.
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Arnaya
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Arnaya » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:54 am

Except... that the game is Supposed to have us all interacting with people of other houses. Not just characters constantly at war with each other and tearing each other to shreds. To advance, the game was set up so that you had to get involved with others to some degree it seems to me.

"A major difference between role-playing games and other games is the ultimate goal. Everyone assumes that a game must have a beginning and an end and that the end comes when someone wins. That doesn't apply to roleplaying because no one "wins" in a roleplaying game. The point of playing is not to win but to have fun and to socialize."
~ 2nd Edition AD&D Players Handbook

With the population being so low... I agree that the sphere support requirements should be decreased a little. And, given the overall Power of most of the characters around (6th sphere is the general average, with quite a few of us exceeding that)... I'd suggest that support requirements be removed for 4th and 5th sphere. Then, something like...

6th sphere: 3
7th sphere: 5
8th sphere: 7
9th sphere: 9

Not a big change from the numbers you'd suggested Cherokee, just enough to require SOME interaction and cooperation outside of our characters own houses (In this case, as the game is now. OoSM and a GM MT would easily round out what couldn't be readily picked up from inside Bastion or HC ranks. And OoSM could easy go to either HC or Bastion or both to round out theirs). Allow GM MT's to contribute as well, and those numbers are fairly easy to get, over a span of a few days or a week, and would let people get a character up to reasonable power level (comparatively) without having to chase around for a bunch of supports until the top sphere's where they can become pretty much game breaking.
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The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Cherokee
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Cherokee » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:16 am

Arnaya wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:54 am
Except... that the game is Supposed to have us all interacting with people of other houses. Not just characters constantly at war with each other and tearing each other to shreds. To advance, the game was set up so that you had to get involved with others to some degree it seems to me.
I never said houses shouldn't be interacting with each other, but there can always be conflict without war. You can be civil to someone and still not want to support their growth. Take original HC vs DoL or The Sect vs EoM, for example: These houses were natural enemies with conflicting beliefs. BoC and HC seem to be forming that type of discord, with MoTS and OoSM leaning to once side or the other depending on the situation. Major sphere tasks already require us to get others outside of our house and friends involved, I don't see why we need to rely on such a large amount of people for supports as well. SoT never had sphere support requirements, if I'm remembering correctly. Houses still had reasons to interact with each other. If a sphere support is your only incentive to talk to another group of people, there's something wrong.
”My candle burns at both ends; It will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—It gives a lovely light!” - Edna St. Vincent Millay
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SnowAngel
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by SnowAngel » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:51 pm

Id have to agree with this.
I honestly didn't even know you needed supports for 4th sphere and above. Snow has been 5th for 20+ years and didnt need supports to get it ( at least I don't think ! My memory is pretty bad!) Right now with my dreaming schedule, it would be virtually impossible for her to get the number of supports needed. I haven't even seen that many people in game , much less ones who can give sphere support. Hell I cant even get SM tasks because I haven't seen a jade halo in so long I forgot what it looks like.

I would second the amended suggestion by Arnaya with an additional change
With the population being so low... I agree that the sphere support requirements should be decreased a little. And, given the overall Power of most of the characters around (6th sphere is the general average, with quite a few of us exceeding that)... I'd suggest that support requirements be removed for 4th and 5th sphere. Then, something like...

6th sphere: 3
7th sphere: 5
8th sphere: 7
Sphere 9 + should require more supports than anything, because that is the highest it goes right now and it should require more than the "good ole boy" network.. I would suggest 10+ supports for 9th and up.

I would also agree that support sphere should be given to more people.. maybe it becomes a house art, or at 5th sphere an up you gain the ability to learn that art.

Just my two cents for what its worth
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Dina
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Dina » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:16 pm

SnowAngel wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:51 pm
Sphere 9 + should require more supports than anything, because that is the highest it goes right now and it should require more than the "good ole boy" network.. I would suggest 10+ supports for 9th and up.
Do we even have 10 players playing? I am being honest. I am talking about daily players. We don't even have elders that dream. If they do, I wish I knew when!

We should never ever be forced to kiss ass in a game to get a support. Period. Like in Discord last night, the bad guys should not be forced to play nice with the others to succeed. Dina hates HC to the max, she will be stuck at 7th sphere forever. I would hope that the GMs would not want that for a player.

A change needs to be made and not to where we need 10 supports for 9th sphere. Jades suggestion is more like it.
"I have this weird sort of Gemini thing where I can really be empathetic and a loving person. But if you piss me off, I can be one of the meanest, most sadistic people." - Wilhelm Reich
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Uthanatos
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Uthanatos » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:50 pm

Personally, I might drop it a little, with an intro at 4th and progressing,

4th =1
5th =2
6th=4
7th=6
8th=8
9th=10

You COULD still progress all the way to 9th by catching the less frequently dreaming teachers and whatnot if you've burned all your bridges, but it would be difficult and time consuming. I feel that a small reduction like this would make it feasible without removing the downside of rampant douchebaggery.
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Inzoum
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Re: Sphere Supports

Post by Inzoum » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:27 am

a very, very VERY long time ago, Support tokens didn’t exist for anything other than ascension to Ruler. I’m pretty sure Sphere Supports were put in to slow down rapid advancement as there wasn’t much in the game available beyond sphere 5. The longer Lyra could keep the sphere average low, the easier it would be for them to balance content.

It’s very much obsolete, at least with the current numbers
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