Invisible Elder Free zones

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Xererth
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Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Xererth » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:25 pm

Would it be possible to have zones in houses/guilds where 'invisible' GMs are not able to enter?

I believe this is an important measure of trust that players should be able to have.

Maybe one zone in every house.
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Koi-Owl
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Koi-Owl » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:57 pm

Actually, that has already been implemented some time ago! The sanctuaries of each house are flagged so invisible characters cannot enter. That is why you never see them there.

Happy Dreaming!
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Xererth
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Xererth » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:19 pm

Oh! Thank you so so so much!!!
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Arnaya
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Arnaya » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:18 pm

*facepalms* Owl was being a smart arse. That's why you don't *see* invisible people in the sanctuaries

I was biting my tongue (keyboard wise) when I read that. Personally, i'd just rather GM characters didn't walk into vaults and whatever and take whatever they want for this or that RP. Having them Roleplay a summoning or something that the characters of said house or their allies could prevent, or the GM characters allies could help with... would be a much more enjoyable and roleplay based way of handling things. I understand why it was done, which is why I havn't said much about it until now.

The invisible GM's thing, I don't have as much issue with... blocking them from area's would mean that there would be zero roleplay support possible in those locations, and I think we all know that quite a few players would just go into those area's and do RP's... then tell the GM's "We did this, it worked. Suck it" (or some variation there-of). Which isn't fair to the GM's or other players.

I think pretty much everyone knows i don't agree with how the GM team handles everything, but they do try, and do have the best interests of the game at heart... even if we don't agree with it. I've been trying to let them know directly when I have an issue with something, and I hope its been coming across respectfully and as more constructive than "You suck, quit being an a*#". Looking at things from a GM's perspective means looking at a larger picture than we as players traditionally see, this is true in tabletop games.. and i doubt its any less true here. If we honestly distrust the GM's so much that we have to say: "This is our room, stay the hell out".... then there's a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

Though, less smart arse in replies to posts like the one that started this thread would likely be very much appreciated by the players ;)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Tember » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:21 am

Im glad you realized it was a joke, I was about to get worried about HC’s sanc hehe. Owl was obviously joking though. He’s a hoot, hoot..get it?! /giggle


PS. It’s also not okay for the players to make bias, rude, assholish posts about the GM’s either.
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Arnaya
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Arnaya » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:03 pm

Tember wrote:Im glad you realized it was a joke, I was about to get worried about HC’s sanc hehe. Owl was obviously joking though. He’s a hoot, hoot..get it?! /giggle


PS. It’s also not okay for the players to make bias, rude, assholish posts about the GM’s either.
Lol, I'll admit that i was laughing when I read Owls reply, your right about the players side too. That's something we should all try to avoid
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Koi-Owl
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Koi-Owl » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:50 pm

Clearly, my response was meant as a joke, but I wasn't aware so many people had no sense of humor.

I apologize for my joke, and will endeavor never to make any in an official capacity in the future.

My response in no way was meant to make light of OPs suggestion. We as GMs have codes of conduct and rules of operation. Invisible characters are actually monitored far more closely than any other GM tool we have available. Invis GMs are only present in areas where we are conducting RP activity, or player requested RP support.

If there is a technical way to enforce your suggestion, I do not know as I am not on the Dev team, but as a GM I can tell you that our rules and codes honor player privacy.

Again, I am sorry my attempt to lighten the situation was received negatively by so many. We are told we aren't involved enough, then told we need to stay away. This is a volunteer job, we do what we do for the players entertainment, and because we enjoy providing a dynamic setting for everyone to roleplay in.

But we are real life people, with real lives. Real life feelings, frustrations, ideas, and yes bad jokes.

Nobody in this community is perfect.
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"Uand le hibou chante, La nuit est silence" – Charles de Leusse
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Uthanatos » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:15 pm

I chuckled
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by PKChrisChan » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:09 pm

It seems to be an inevitable consequence of Underlight that our GMs slowly become jaded, unhappy, and resentful, finally just leaving altogether. Personally I think it's the fault of a few specific elders, and these people should never have been allowed to game, scam, and harass the "bitter players" in the first place. Yes, I absolutely do believe GMs should be able to put players on ignore. Yes, I absolutely do believe GMs should not be housemates with players, not even casual advisor roles, especially not with some of the game's most toxic people. It's a losing proposition with a 90% chance you're being scammed as a resource for the griefers.

I believe half of these dreamers do it on purpose because they prefer a game with no GMs so they can grief and harass in peace. We've seen this happen a various times, and it's getting old. From what I've seen, the other half of the players just endure it because the first half are a blatant scourge on the game and nothing is ever done about them. It's ridiculous, and for most, it's enraging. That's not to excuse their actions, but to point out that a few bans would solve both types of headaches once and for all.

Why keep putting up with the people that make this game a toxic hellhole for everyone? I can think of 3 particular people whose removal would give this game instant breathing room to grow for a few years while we grow a bit. Imagine that? An entire game held back by the incessant(and invisible) griefing efforts of three people... they've been doing it for ten years or more, they're not going to stop on their own.
Clearly, my response was meant as a joke, but I wasn't aware so many people had no sense of humor....
But we are real life people, with real lives. Real life feelings, frustrations, ideas, and yes bad jokes.
Nobody in this community is perfect.
Owl, you're an amazing GM. I already know it by your behavior and how friendly you are with players. I took no offense to your statement but I can understand both perspectives.
PS. It’s also not okay for the players to make bias, rude, assholish posts about the GM’s either.
Having written this out, I'm surprised by how obvious and true it is - and now I see why they hate my posts so much. I'm proposing changes and enlightening players on anything that will eliminate the ability to attack the player rather than his character - aka attempting to remove griefing. Now I get why they hate elder free areas so much - it removes griefing tools! And crossover cheesing of any sort should be up on the chopping block. When legitimate roleplay is all that remains, these people will no longer have the ability to make people quit... and then what the hell will they do??

This is 9th plateau Poisoning from Something Odd repeatedly while fighting a daymare 1v1.
This is sending a Darkmare against 2 dreamers daily for 5-6 days in a row(they quit about a year ago).
This is turning a roleplay out in favor of your player characters (Claw of Mork).
This is every other roleplay sending 1st and 2nd sphere characters to Horron's lair.
This is MASS TELEPORTING everyone into a perma-ward locked room when they roleplayed not to associate with that particular character in that specific way.

I could go on and on and on.
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Koi-Owl
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Koi-Owl » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:20 pm

PKChrisChan wrote:
This is 9th plateau Poisoning from Something Odd repeatedly while fighting a daymare 1v1.
This is sending a Darkmare against 2 dreamers daily for 5-6 days in a row(they quit about a year ago).
This is turning a roleplay out in favor of your player characters (Claw of Mork).
This is every other roleplay sending 1st and 2nd sphere characters to Horron's lair.
This is MASS TELEPORTING everyone into a perma-ward locked room when they roleplayed not to associate with that particular character in that specific way.

I could go on and on and on.

These are very serious accusations, and it's EXTREMELY important that whoever is experiencing these things is reporting them. Sending logs is extremely helpful as well.
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"Uand le hibou chante, La nuit est silence" – Charles de Leusse
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Lu Chaos » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:05 pm

As far as Elder free zones go, I don't think it would be feasible, seeing as only a select few GMs, Three to my knowledge have access to real time logs. Meaning they can see things when they are happening, the other GMs need to be in the room to actually help out with what the Roleplay is, so if you create an Elder free room, then you just open the door to them not being able to help you, and in this game with not so many players, we need all the help we can get.

I won't acknowledge the borderline flame posts in this place but what I will say is that we've all spoken about these issues over and over again, and I feel it's time to move forward, the time for talking about things are over, it's time to actually put your boots on the ground and make things work the way you want them to work, and if it's not possible go play another game, and then when that happens and everyone leaves, they'll get bored and leave too..

So yea leaving the game isn't the issue, what's the issue is things are always spoken and never really addressed, so let's just keep this topic really focused on what it's suppose to be focused on and that's the Elder free zones. We all want a better game, some only want the game to be better for them and their friends, it happens.
Last edited by Koi-Drama on Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed direct reference/attacks against another player.
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PKChrisChan
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by PKChrisChan » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:35 pm

Lu Chaos wrote:As far as Elder free zones go, I don't think it would be feasible, seeing as only a select few GMs, Three to my knowledge have access to real time logs. Meaning they can see things when they are happening, the other GMs need to be in the room to actually help out with what the Roleplay is, so if you create an Elder free room, then you just open the door to them not being able to help you, and in this game with not so many players, we need all the help we can get.
The intention was to give Players a place to vent, a place to strategize, and a place where invisible GMs won't have to hear a good deal of toxicity. Visible GMs could still come in and rp, and I trust the individuals with master logs.
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Koi-Shadow
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Re: Invisible Elder Free zones

Post by Koi-Shadow » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:48 pm

This suggestion will be forwarded to DEV and appropriate team leads to review. As a reminder *Players* should not be venting OOC in the game. We frequently get complaints about people going OOC. People play this game to roleplay, not to listen to a player vent.

We almost always have somebody available in Discord or you are always welcome to send emails to roleplaying@underlight.com. Not providing any kind of feedback to us, then complaining on the forums about issues that happened over a year ago, is not helpful to anyone nor is comments like "Now I get why they hate elder free areas so much - it removes griefing tools!"

The individuals you trust with master log access, who would still be able to see what was being discussed in these proposed rooms, are also the individuals you are trusting to make sure GMs are not abusing their invis characters.
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