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PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

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Neil
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Neil » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:15 pm

I feel Neil is pretty accepting of most of his own interactions. Although, I will admit, some of them have personally affected me with rage and anger, but I guess that's what good role playing does to you (and I'm not referencing this particular event). For the most part, a lack of dreaming and returning normally calms Neil down. Neil does hold grudges secretly, but just tries to enjoy the dream when he is able to reach the city. Most of the time, he's just looking to advance himself. He actually enjoys fighting, but never feels good enough to stand on the front lines like he used to; hence his constant desire to advance and someday return.

As for Lu, Neil was actually sad to see him go initially. Personally, his antics draw various emotions from not only me, but many others as the above conversation shows. This is why I think Lu's character is needed in the game and Neil was glad to see him return; although would not openly admit that to his fellow house members. Whether you like Lu or not, he is a conversation starter. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes just annoying. Neil isn't on bad terms with Lu. He's shown him respect, and in turn, Lu has given him respect, so I think... It's part of the reason Neil helped Lu open up the Bastion in the first place and wore two crests. It doesn't mean Lu won't attack Neil, but I feel Lu thinks twice about it or at least shows some type of hesitation.

In reference to the HC comments, I would love to see HC be of a house of old, it's just not necessarily the style today, and I can respect that too. As for Neil, he is loyal. He enjoys the leadership and fellow dreamers in the house. He is also drawn to a particular halo that was missed for so many years. And although there are many other outlets for getting trained in arts now, it's like a 'shiny thing' that Neil cannot get over.

Now, I'm only going to reference this case, but since we started the role-play conversation based on the video, what many of you may have missed in the video is ALL of the conversation that was said by all parties. This was simply due to Juliet's distance from other players. I'm not saying what Lu did was right, but what I'm saying is, "Lu is being Lu" like boys will be boys. Whether anyone tries to 'fix' him that's up to their character, but it always keeps people talking, and I enjoy the occasional fight. I just wish I had a better preparation and arts for it. Neil was not ready for a battle and he should have been knowing the expectation of the characters.

Everyone is needed to make things move forward. A dream without conflict is just a dream, but a dream with conflict is an event!
Umm... Neil
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Techgeist
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Techgeist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 pm

Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm
I erased by 5 paragraphs to say that if you don't like the type of way somebody plays underlight then stfu because your opinion doesn't matter.
You've been here like what? 15 minutes? and you're aligned with the troll corps because, I'm guessing, they told you how much fun they were having collapsing people and gave you free stuff. I mean, that's their MO, free stuff and 'we're going to win the game'.
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Play how you want, and let people play how they want.
Exactly. Kinda hard to do, though, when there is an entire faction who can't live by that... even though they're the first jokers to spout it off. "You will do as we say, when we say, or we're going to go to collapse you."
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Too many people sit OOC and complain or IC and complain and that's pretty much what UL is at this point. Underlight=ComplainHeavy
Again, you've been here a short period of time, the game has been suffering from this problem for a very, very long time. Unfortunately, there's no clear narrative, the story-line is basically bankrupt. Big RPs get doled out to the returning flavor of the week. There seems to be no real plan in place for what happens, when it happens, and how it should be handled when the players take it off the rails. I know we're all supposed to be on our best behavior because we have new players, but the fact is, the game should've been reset to ground zero when we went to Steam. Too many old players with too much baggage between them. The community has been toxic for a very long time.
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm
For instance, Liolira and I have argued in-game a 100 times but then when she arranges a GM sit for us 3 to figure things out OOC (which btw has nothing to do with Juliet recognizing her as a rival in RP, I have nothing against her irl obviously) she doesn't even show up to her own GM intervention.
Don't know about this, don't care about it, but the fact that someone needed to get GM intervention to deal with you tells me you're fitting in very well in the Lu Crew.
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm
All you guys do is complain about things and beg for them to be changed. Also if you dissolved Bastion we would just have no house and no storage and you would still have the same problem you have now. Or we'd all just join the same house and you'd still have the same problem.
Duh. We have the exact same problem with the Bastion that we had when it was the Peace Corpse, and when Lu inevitably gets himself banned again and the whole Bastion thing dries up, we'll have the same group of toxic players doing the exact same thing no matter what they rebrand themselves as.
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Not all, but most UL players just cry and cry and cry and it's really annoying and honestly the main reason I haven't logged in in 3 days.
"People don't want to play and complain about the fact that my group makes the game a miserable experience, Must be their fault somehow. So annoying, I'm not going to play." Don't worry, I'm sure they'll @ you in Discord to come play next time they're going to attack something. Oh, wait, that's crossover and the Bastion players would never stoop to doing something like that. Silly me.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Juliet » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm

Techgeist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 pm
Actually, I'm in Bastion because I wanted to learn how to fight. They never gave me anything unless it was earned.

You don't HAVE to do anything anybody tells you to do, just like you don't HAVE to follow the laws in reality, you still have to face the consequences though.

GM Intervention was simply because I disagreed with her telling a newly to go to sphere 3 room to read a codex when he was working on a task requiring him to ask teachers questions. I jumped in front of her for 20 minutes and she got mad.

They don't OOC call for battles btw, but I can tell you're one of those "only dreams because life is miserable irl and i need something less personal to cry about" types.

Hope you fix yourself, but if you don't it was nice knowing you while you dreamed.

Also, my personal experience with Bastion has been nothing but kindness and understanding. Everybody sees my crest and automatically ignores me or treats me like shit. Honestly, UL is a huge social experiment in my free time for me, and I have never experienced such discrimination in a video game.

I am the first person to want to attend ANY Houses events and help them restore or fix or advance whatever they are trying to do.
Mind you, the reason why Liolira dislikes me in the first place is because I collapsed her other character and she's been ooc/ic'ing me ever since, regardless of what characters I play.
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PKChrisChan
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by PKChrisChan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
Techgeist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 pm
Also, my personal experience with Bastion has been nothing but kindness and understanding. Everybody sees my crest and automatically ignores me or treats me like shit. Honestly, UL is a huge social experiment in my free time for me, and I have never experienced such discrimination in a video game.
That is one of the largest issues in the game. Instead of elevating their combat skills, or hell thinking out of the box with roleplays (which there are quite a few). They seek to demonize players who enjoy PvP. Combat has merit, and is one of the only ways as a player to effectively play a villain without GM intervention. These complaints are passive calls for GM intervention when the solutions can be handled ICly.

There are already implications and social controls to use. If you are letting Lu Chaos stagnate your progression/roleplaying, I suggest you learn to shift your focus and detach. I could have done the same with Harkyn, Dina or Dreiko/OoL GMs. I played Xererth, who was starkly opposed to Lu Chaos and can not recount feelings of oppression/bullying and fought him and was collapsed. Also, if you can't fight try another avenue. Perhaps, the "Warrior House" facade isn't for you!

Dimitri, the way you play that character makes you your own worst enemy.
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Techgeist
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Techgeist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
Actually, I'm in Bastion because I wanted to learn how to fight. They never gave me anything unless it was earned.
Ooooooohhhh... so you saw a Role Playing Game and immediately though, "I'd like to make this more like Fortnite."
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
You don't HAVE to do anything anybody tells you to do, just like you don't HAVE to follow the laws in reality, you still have to face the consequences though.
{/quote}

Again, your attitude is "play my way or be attacked". Dress it up how you'd like, it doesn't change the message. "Do what the Bastion says or face the consequences."
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
GM Intervention was simply because I disagreed with her telling a newly to go to sphere 3 room to read a codex when he was working on a task requiring him to ask teachers questions. I jumped in front of her for 20 minutes and she got mad.
"I didn't get my way, so I exploited the game and acted like a petulant child for 20 minutes to annoy the player by taking up their screen and making the annoying jumping sound."
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
They don't OOC call for battles btw,
They do. I remember a time where Harkyn hadn't been seen in weeks. One of their lower level characters got into a fight he couldn't win and then, suddenly, here's Harkyn. Maybe coincidence? Who knows. Occam's razor says more likely using OOC means to coordinate. I mean, it's not like much has changed from the ICQ days.
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
but I can tell you're one of those "only dreams because life is miserable irl and i need something less personal to cry about" types.

Hope you fix yourself, but if you don't it was nice knowing you while you dreamed.
Oh, how cute, it thinks it knows me. I'm not miserable IRL, I'm actually quite busy being an adult with a full-time job, a house and a wife. A full time job where I deal with the bottom dregs of society who think preying on innocents is fun and games. I see actual, real evil on a near daily basis. When I come to play video games, I do it to get away from that, not have to deal with a bunch of keyboard warriors who want to pretend that they're 'oh so evil', but in reality are just making a game that should be fun into a miserable experience for all involved.
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
Also, my personal experience with Bastion has been nothing but kindness and understanding. Everybody sees my crest and automatically ignores me or treats me like shit. Honestly, UL is a huge social experiment in my free time for me, and I have never experienced such discrimination in a video game.
BECAUSE THE BASTION IS FULL OF POWERGAMING PKING GRIEFERS. The Bastion, The Peace Corpse. Whatever you want to call it, exists for two things. 1) For Lace to do whatever clandestine evil of the month thing she's doing and 2) for Lu to start wars because he gets more XP from collapsing dreamers than 'mares. If people avoid anyone with their crest on, it's because they did it to themselves. It's not "discrimination", it's one of those "consequences" you're so damned fond of.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Lu Chaos » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:19 pm

Techgeist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:16 pm
"It's your fault I hit you. If you just didn't make me mad, it wouldn't happen." - Every abuser ever.

One player should not be able to hold the game hostage. "Play the way I want, or I'm going to attack you" is not "a code to avoid attacks", it's extortion. Not that said code actually exists, I've seen Lu collapse people just for being in a room with people he didn't like. I saw him collapse a female dreamer for saying she'd never kiss him. Lu, the character, is a thinly veiled excuse for Lu the player to openly PK and grief the rest of the game. Lu, the player, thinks that he is the 'ultimate big bad' of the game and that he actually adds something to the experience by being the way he is. What's even sadder is that the group of barnacles hanging off Lu's bottom generally tend to be made up of good to decent role-players with delusions of "winning" UL (certain ones who've wanted every UL player to play the game their 'proper way' for the last 20 years), UL is a collaborative story, and the story winds and evolves with the players. Players like Lu stifle that story, because they refuse to do anything that doesn't further toward the "I am the great God of Underlight and everyone worships me and does what I say" ending. Choosing to play a villain requires the ability and emotional capacity to deal with losing, which a certain bigoted, homophobic tantrum proved is lacking.

Ultimately, though, all of this is fine, he wants to be a PK troll, then that's his right. He's not hacking the game, he's not exploiting anything that we know of, but the player base needs to stop legitimizing his barely there RP excuses. They won't, of course, because a whole lot of people enjoy talking smack while standing behind him and they don't get to strut around like the 'most awesome people ever' when he's gone.
Since you lied during your paragraph the rest of this post doesnt require me to respond too. I've said enough about the subject really. It's not really a roleplay excuse. It's Lu's personality. No he doesn't want to be the ultimate villain, he actually wants to be the ultimate hero buttttt thanks to you guys who influence how Lu thinks and acts, it might be possible you are actually steering my character in that direction you view him as. It's as simple as that. literally all of you create the story of Lu by your interactions with him. Hail him or hate him. He is an Alpha Warrior and he won't stop being a dreamer who dreams to be what ever it he wants to be, and won't let anyone get in his way. He has been that way since day 1 when I created him. Ask around I fought everyday for years until I was good at fighting. All to be the greatest warrior for my roleplayed character. to be honest I could easily roleplay another character with an entirely different persona and all of you would still feel epicly strong about how that character is played. Super good or super bad. The thing is I dive into characters and I let them play themselves. it's boring to bring my own OOC feelings into a roleplayed virtual world where I'm suppose to be a character that I created... But as I said, since you went as far as making up a scenario about collapsing someone for not kissing me? The rest of your banter is just that.. Banter, untruth and biased words attempting to get a reaction. Won't work though. Lu could care less about someone kissing him that is the most ridiculous lie I've ever heard lmao. Lu isn't that type of dreamer.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Yuritau » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:22 pm

Techgeist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:16 pm
"It's your fault I hit you. If you just didn't make me mad, it wouldn't happen." - Every abuser ever.

One player should not be able to hold the game hostage. "Play the way I want, or I'm going to attack you" is not "a code to avoid attacks", it's extortion. Not that said code actually exists, I've seen Lu collapse people just for being in a room with people he didn't like. I saw him collapse a female dreamer for saying she'd never kiss him. Lu, the character, is a thinly veiled excuse for Lu the player to openly PK and grief the rest of the game. Lu, the player, thinks that he is the 'ultimate big bad' of the game and that he actually adds something to the experience by being the way he is. What's even sadder is that the group of barnacles hanging off Lu's bottom generally tend to be made up of good to decent role-players with delusions of "winning" UL (certain ones who've wanted every UL player to play the game their 'proper way' for the last 20 years), UL is a collaborative story, and the story winds and evolves with the players. Players like Lu stifle that story, because they refuse to do anything that doesn't further toward the "I am the great God of Underlight and everyone worships me and does what I say" ending. Choosing to play a villain requires the ability and emotional capacity to deal with losing, which a certain bigoted, homophobic tantrum proved is lacking.

Ultimately, though, all of this is fine, he wants to be a PK troll, then that's his right. He's not hacking the game, he's not exploiting anything that we know of, but the player base needs to stop legitimizing his barely there RP excuses. They won't, of course, because a whole lot of people enjoy talking smack while standing behind him and they don't get to strut around like the 'most awesome people ever' when he's gone.
100% this.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Techgeist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:28 pm

Lu Chaos wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:19 pm

Since you lied during your paragraph the rest of this post doesnt require me to respond too. I've said enough about the subject really. It's not really a roleplay excuse. It's Lu's personality. No he doesn't want to be the ultimate villain, he actually wants to be the ultimate hero buttttt thanks to you guys who influence how Lu thinks and acts, it might be possible you are actually steering my character in that direction you view him as. It's as simple as that. literally all of you create the story of Lu by your interactions with him. Hail him or hate him. He is an Alpha Warrior and he won't stop being a dreamer who dreams to be what ever it he wants to be, and won't let anyone get in his way. He has been that way since day 1 when I created him. Ask around I fought everyday for years until I was good at fighting. All to be the greatest warrior for my roleplayed character. to be honest I could easily roleplay another character with an entirely different persona and all of you would still feel epicly strong about how that character is played. Super good or super bad. The thing is I dive into characters and I let them play themselves. it's boring to bring my own OOC feelings into a roleplayed virtual world where I'm suppose to be a character that I created... But as I said, since you went as far as making up a scenario about collapsing someone for not kissing me? The rest of your banter is just that.. Banter, untruth and biased words attempting to get a reaction. Won't work though. Lu could care less about someone kissing him that is the most ridiculous lie I've ever heard lmao. Lu isn't that type of dreamer.
"I'm going to claim you lied about something I did so I don't have to address the salient points you made."

I never said that Lu collapsed someone for refusing to kiss him. I said he collapsed someone for saying she would never kiss him. Lu came up to the EA to generally be a dick, as he does, made some off color remark at Snow Angel about her wanting him, then when she said something along the lines of never wanting to kiss him, he collapsed her. I guess having his ego insulted, the collapse is totally in character, you guys.
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Techgeist
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Techgeist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:32 pm

PKChrisChan wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:13 pm
Juliet wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:55 pm
Techgeist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 pm
Also, my personal experience with Bastion has been nothing but kindness and understanding. Everybody sees my crest and automatically ignores me or treats me like shit. Honestly, UL is a huge social experiment in my free time for me, and I have never experienced such discrimination in a video game.
That is one of the largest issues in the game. Instead of elevating their combat skills, or hell thinking out of the box with roleplays (which there are quite a few). They seek to demonize players who enjoy PvP. Combat has merit, and is one of the only ways as a player to effectively play a villain without GM intervention. These complaints are passive calls for GM intervention when the solutions can be handled ICly.

There are already implications and social controls to use. If you are letting Lu Chaos stagnate your progression/roleplaying, I suggest you learn to shift your focus and detach. I could have done the same with Harkyn, Dina or Dreiko/OoL GMs. I played Xererth, who was starkly opposed to Lu Chaos and can not recount feelings of oppression/bullying and fought him and was collapsed. Also, if you can't fight try another avenue. Perhaps, the "Warrior House" facade isn't for you!

Dimitri, the way you play that character makes you your own worst enemy.
Oh wow. I'm playing the game totally wrong! I didn't realize that. I guess I'll just completely alter my play-style and character to make it more palatable to the group of people who want to totally control how all the other players play their characters.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Blade » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:34 pm

I'm going to do something rare for me, I'm going to take something on the internet seriously and give my thought out opinion on it. What follows is my own personal opinion and in no way reflects the opinions of other individuals or professional bodies. It is up to you as to whether or not you will read what I have to say. It is your choice if you will take what I have to say as thoughtful remarks intended to provoke a mindful response, or if you choose to immediately disregard it.

After going through all the previous replies/statements/etc there really is a lot to unpack. I will likely not be able to touch on all of it.

Underlight is a sandbox. Everyone wants to do what they consider fun, rewarding, enjoyable and so on in the sandbox. Anyone who gets in the way of the goals of a particular corner of the sandbox is "The Enemy". Now, the thing to think about with this mentality is that it applies to -every corner- of the sandbox. You are not alone in your sandbox, there are others in there with you. Each person with their own goals, ideas, and feelings. This is the concept that escapes so many people, it's not just about you or your group of friends/family/colleagues. You will want to say but I'm only playing the way I want to play, why don't they understand that and let me play. Well, it's because they say the same thing and no one is "right". Everyone has the right to act however they wish, in accordance with -The Rules-. Now, The Rules are very specific, while also being vague... they're more a concept at times. For instance, what does it mean to respect each other? Some of you are certainly not following that rule at this moment, in this very post. While you attack each other's personalities or making references to real lives. Rather you make assumptions in order to bolster your own argument, in order to invalidate someone's opinion because it doesn't mesh with your own. I invite you to research what it means to truly be toxic, rather than combatting what you view to be social toxicity you instead feed into it, breeding more of it. You do not get your point across, you do not change minds, you only concrete negative opinions further by making your argument an attack against a person, rather than their ideas.

People feel very strongly about their corners of the sandbox, this is an immutable fact. They spend their time on their creations of words and mettle, and what more valuable thing is there other than your time? You take pride in that which you do, in what you accomplish, and in what others around you accomplish. The folly that has befallen this community is to draw lines in that sand, lines which transcend your characters and have affected -YOUR- personal opinions of one another. Instead of being a dynamic everchanging tapestry of interactions between fanciful characters of your own designs, it has become an us against them mentality. Rather than playing the game together, and forging ahead based on mutual respect and the desire to create a roleplaying environment where -everyone- can thrive and enjoy interacting (even when that interaction is "negative") with each other, instead you have created a situation where it is more acceptable to attack each other on a personal level, rather than roleplay out your interactions, congratulations.

To role-play means to dynamically and reactively interact with your surroundings. That surrounding also includes the people contained therein. Instead, I hear "the other people didn't act the way I want them to". That isn't role-playing, you would be better suited to play a Bioware game, such as Knights of the Old Republic, where the NPC's react to you in a predetermined manner based on your choices, that isn't Underlight. Another thing which is not a sustainable argument is the thought that your way of roleplaying is the only one comprised of validity. You cannot claim the morally just and pure highroad, while not accepting there is more than one way in which to react to something. Do you want to be peace-loving monks? Super, but don't expect everyone to think everything is sunshine and flowers. Do you wish to always be engaged in combat where your skills and prowess are always kept at a razor's edge? Excellent, but do not expect people to rise to that challenge at all times. These are only two extreme examples, but I believe it is enough to understand my point. What is fun for you, is not fun for others. You cannot force anyone to interact with you in the manner in which you prefer. Do x_action or y_result will happen is not always the only answer.

In conclusion, try to keep your discussions geared towards the constructive betterment of the sandbox as a whole, rather than that which you think is wrong with it. When you focus on the negative, that is what your thoughts and actions become. There shouldn't be only one path of interaction/reaction. Avoid the air of superiority, you harm only yourself and everything around you. There are times when you must give more thought on how to benefit the whole, rather than a portion. When it is better to foster growth, rather than crushing independent thought because it does not mesh with your own. Avoid making conflicts a personal encounter between controllers, rather they should be interactions between characters which you control.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Erasmus » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:48 pm

I, too, have been avoiding this topic due to the personal nature of it. But, after seeing several arguments of, "just roll with it, role play how you want and let others role play how they want" so on and so forth, I wanted to givey two cents.

This game is not an average game where anyone can do what they want however they want. But, on the contrary, they can. How can it be both ways?

You can literally role play anything. It's free for role play and you can do anything. I could RP that Bozo the Clown walks up to House Walmart and burns it down. Obviously no visual or permanent change takes place, but I can RP it. Is it bad role play? What if I had a really good IC reason for it? Should House Walmart HAVE to go along with it because I rp'ed it? So, on the flip side, what if I'm House Walmart and pretend nothing happened and it's business as usual? Is that bad role play? What if HW rps that we just snap our fingers and the house is rebuilt good as new? Is that good RP? What's the right answer? In any case, you force something on someone else or just ignore them.

Is forcing someone to RP something they don't want to ok? If it's not, how is this topic any different? If so, that opens up the floodgates for "You HAVE to do it because I RPed it." Isn't just ignoring it bad form? I don't know the answer.

I'll admit, griefing sucks. Other games have avenues to protect against it too, because a game should be fun for all. Not just the griefer. I'm not specifically calling Lu Chaos a griefer. In fact, my PC has instructed his house to have civil conversations with him because it's how the tenets of AoE are written. But, ANY player that comes up with or justifies pking with a loose, vieled RP "reason" is toeing the line. Why? Because it's something that a player CAN'T avoid, like other RPs that have no lasting effect. It isn't the same as normal RP.

My PC doesn't run from a fight, even if he doesn't fight. He knows the mechanisms in place to protect him if he needs protection. I've never cried to a GM about being collapsed. But I've been pissed about it, and who wouldn't be? If it happens enough, maybe I'll change my mind and how I react. Good RP should have some give and some take. But being forced into something SUCKS. Over and over I hear about Idoaclesia being hard and such because the hunting other dreamers sucked due to little to no mares. I hear it ALL the TIME. People like what they earn/gain. They don't want to lose it. Take that how you will. It's the way of things.

Oh, and the argument that there are consequences for choosing to play your character as either good or evil, peaceful or warmongering, this or that, is right to an extent, sure.. but to compare it to real life is just plain silly. If you want to pull that card, then there are also police to govern violent attackers. UL doesn't have that except in a purely OOC way.

To summarize, this is free form RP. Or is it? Who is right, who is wrong? To what extent should someone be forced into RP? And finally, collapsing someone isn't the same as other forms of RP. It's one of the few lasting effects that can... and does affect players' enjoyment of the game.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Lu Chaos » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:01 pm

This will be my last post on this subject..

Lu Chaos IS AN AGGRESSIVE CHARACTER.. I'm not going to change him because you feel he effects people in a negative way. So many players feel Lu Chaos does the exact opposite and that is bring a different dynamic to the game. I feel that way too, he is overly aggressive but ONLY ROLEPLAY CAN CHANGE THAT. i'm not about to change my character because a few of you can't stand how he is. Picture being told you can't learn arts, picture always being defeaned and scared as a newly when they evoked all kinds of arts on you. Picture always being chased and collapsed and you couldn't defend yourself. Then picture being hunted by the entire city. Now that Lu Chaos has defeated all odds against him,he wants to use his powers for his version of good.

I'm not changing his roleplay, he acts how he acts, HE IS THE EASIEST PERSON TO GET ALONG WITH, I promise you. It's not that hard. Come out of your shell and attempt but making all these posts aren't going to change him. Period. Call me a PKer, say i'm not roleplaying, say what you want, I don't care really. If you antagonize someone and talk crap to them, expect this particular dreamer to assault you in return for your actions. It's not that hard really. Speak with respect to Lu or deal with an overly aggressive warrior type character. I'm done with this conversation. It's really pointless. I've thought about everyones feelings too many times, i've even tried to change him against my better judgement OOCly..

WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I ATTEMPT TO CHANGE HIM?! YOU GUYS KEEP PUSHING HIM BACK INTO A VILLAIN ROLE. THE SLIGHTEST THING LU CHAOS DOES.. OH YOURE STILL THE SAME, OH YOULL NEVER CHANGE, OH REMEMBER WHEN YOU JOINED THE CONSORTIUM? OH REMEMBER WHEN YOU DID THIS AND THAT FOR POWER?...

My point being, how do you expect someone to change for the better when that's all they are met with? Be honest with yourselves.

SO NOW YOU ARE DEALING WITH AN ESCAPED PALISADES LU CHAOS WHO HAS A CERTAIN QUEST HE IS ON NOW. and sorry but i'm not going to change him for anyone. I can't. You guys can only change him from IN GAME. not OOC. Just so you are aware.
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Tentacle
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Tentacle » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:05 pm

I recently went over an article that deals with many of the issues being brought to light in this thread. I will link to it in full.


".. salt-miners are not seeking in-game “virtual” achievements (winning the game, getting the loot, completing a task) but covet the real-life “reward” of upsetting the flesh-and-blood person behind the in-game avatar. In Massively Multiplayer Online Games (MMOs), trolling has evolved into a complex and multifaceted phenomenon, since the in-game interaction with other people affords much wider and insidious harassment opportunities than those offered by a comment thread or a Twitter exchange."


".. When the interaction between griefers and victims shifts to verbal channels of communication, the motivations, ideology, and thought processes of the griefers become clearer. The way in which griefers justify their actions falls with interesting regularity into one of two explanatory patterns. They will ironically point out how the irritated player is unable to tell the difference between a game and real-life (“they’re just pixels” is a common phrase used to dismiss emotional responses as overreactions). Alternatively, they will sneer at their victims arguing that these complaints betray a lack of resolve and that one should become stronger after having been taught a lesson. Hence the now memetic mantra “Git Gud”, ubiquitous in gaming discussions: if you lose, it is your fault for not being good enough at the game. Both arguments assume that there is nothing objectionable about the activity of salt-mining, that “carebears” are at fault and unable to cope with online gaming, and that enduring humiliation leads to self-improvement."

Exerpts taken from: Gaming’s Hidden Toxicity
What is Salt-Mining?




Play my way, I am right. If you do not like it, leave. Is dangerous.

Our characters are not sentient. They do not exist without us to direct them. If you know that what you are doing is harming another human being, should you continue? We've been down the road of Underlight as an empty game. The development team can only do so much. It is up to each of us, as players, to help shape an environment that people want to engage with. Conflict is understandable. Underlight asks us to put the good of the entire community ahead of the good of our one character (or Alts.) When we cannot do this, the entire game suffers.

Ages ago, in the many Role Playing Guides for the game there was quite a lot of space given to explaining the unique requirements for being a villain in Underlight. It is a very hard role to play. Underlight is not a game where there is a single winner. No matter your justifications for wanting to do so, you cannot destroy everyone in the course of a typical Player-Character existence. You need to be prepared, to lose. Your character must be, dynamic.

If your sole aim is to frag some no0bs and piss off carebears, and special snowflakes just can't handle you. If this is the character you want to play - there are other titles that might be better suited for those character designs than Underlight.

On the flipside, simply putting a head in the ground and saying, "Nanana boo-boo you're baddie me no play now!", accomplishes little.

Whether we like it or not, whether we enjoy the characters our fellow players have created or not, we have no choice but to play together. Other players enjoyment of the game is absolutely as important as enjoying the game ourselves.
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it."- Niccolo Machiavelli
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Juliet » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:18 am

My only argument with this whole thing is we are all different people, who like different things. We all play the same game!

As Blade said, this is literally a sandbox game in a sense. We dream and we do what we want.

Apart from Bastion there is little to NO "PK/PVP" mindset at ALL. It's pretty much all QRP or hope to God that there is an event going on or a lets talk about Lu Chaos all day or shit talk Bastion IN FRONT of Bastion members and not expect to be put on a list after our next meeting.

I can't tell you how many times I am 110% polite to people only to leave and come back 5 minutes later and hear them spurting out hateful words about me lol.

If you can sit in thresh all day and enjoy the game peacefully, and do everything you can do anywhere else since you're all just QRPing anyways, then why leave sanctuary and risk being Pked. As far as I'm concerned there is a safe area, and one that is not.

That alone is a mechanic that literally tells you that you can be attacked when you leave sanctuary.
If you don't like it then complain more to the GMs until they remove chaks and arts with damage please.
Or download IMVU so you can QRP something a little nicer than 16-bit.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Blade » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:46 am

Juliet wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:18 am
... since you're all just QRPing anyways ...
This falls under what I said about making assumptions and attempting to base your argument on personal assaults rather than facts.

There's honestly no need for this, other than to attempt to insult certain people? You cannot claim with one breath that everyone has a right to do what they want, and in the next condemn what others do.

I hardly play, but I detest people's inability to accept the fact that everyone has the same rights they do. If your argument is based on attacking other people personally then your argument is invalid.
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Re: PVP: House Calenture, A Violation of Code Eight: Refusal to Release Fangx into City Guard Custody

Post by Koi-Kanin » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:53 am

I have been watching this thread for a few days now, and I feel it's been allowed to drag on too long. I will be locking the thread, but not deleting it. Good points were made for several different views on a situation and behaviors pertaining to playing a character and players themselves. Insulting each other is not productive and should not continue. Another conversation like this should be handled with more tact or held somewhere other than the forums.

In the end, I know we all agree that we are complex human beings that all think so differently and disagreements will be had. And some of those thoughts/feelings/opinions will be offensive to someone else.

Let's all take a deep breath and move on.
Ask me anything! I'm here to help you. :D
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