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So what's really going on?

Want to talk about non-game related issues? This is the forum for it.
Tary
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Tary »

Lu Chaos wrote:@Tary
Well i do agree the teaching system is outdated. We need to be able to reward arts when we dem them necessary. Gain spheres like the daymares do. And at 9th orbit then we should be able to focus on accomplishing roleplay goals together or while we chase the final orbit. The win war thing, i mean sure it sounds good but with the minor amount of players. Wars aren't needed.
To be quite Frank.. We need more participation from the Elders, whether they be enemy or friend. That will go a long way to the acitivity.
That's not really solving the problem. I can give you a counter-reason for each:
  • Power players - and even less so - will reach the end-game almost immediately. What happens then? The game becomes even less fun when there's nothing to achieve.
  • No I don't think GM participation will help. You can make up any storyline you want; the GMs don't have much more in their backpack of tools that you can't do. Sure, they can forge pretty ornaments, and place large no-pickup items on the ground, but that's it. There's no real gameplay change.
  • With the reliance on GMs the accusations of favoritism will always exist. There needs to be a way to have definable end-goals that are enforced by the gameplay system that don't require any human involvement.
The game is old. The gameplay system is practically non-existent. At least for me, greater elder participation and removing sphere constraints won't convince me to play. We need to change the game at a fundamental level. We need to make houses relevant and overthrowable. We need to make "tasking" systematic.

For example, what if we wanted to retain the P2P advancement system but remove the constraint on players being present all the time? Here's a sample proposal that isn't fully fleshed out:
  • All players are teachers - you can task for any art you have, at any level you have it.
  • All tasks are asynchronous and publicly posted on the Task Boards.
  • All tasks are live and acceptable by any player for 2 weeks.
  • Players can post task requests on the Task Boards. These are publicly viewable as well. Once a task is entered for this task request, the request is closed.
  • Task reports are public.
  • Higher level tasks (not sure how we define this) require supports that can be either reported in the form of an item in the task report of the student, or by any player who reads the task report and/or attests to the fact that the reporting player completed the task as written. Again, note: all interaction can be asynchronous.
  • If the training teacher doesn't accept your task within 5 days it goes into an autocompleted state if you required supports. If you didn't require supports it goes into a pending state pending a single support by any other player.
  • Some incentive exists for players to write tasks on the Task Boards.
  • Some incentive exists for players to support tasks on the Task Boards.
  • There exists a mobile phone client that can access the Task Boards for reporting, supporting and posting tasks.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

To be quite frank, the teaching system as is is fine.. Yet there are small rules in place that is halting progression for small reasons. We have a very small player base now, I could understand the rules with more players, but with a community as small as this? We can't just go to another teacher and task for something else we need, we can only rely on one teacher, and that one teacher should be able to task us for multiple things we need at least 2-3 arts at a time. Even two plateaus or three at a time..

Just my opinion on the teaching thing.. I don't think things need to switch up with it, I think things need to be less strict.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Tary »

Lu Chaos wrote:To be quite frank, the teaching system as is is fine.. Yet there are small rules in place that is halting progression for small reasons. We have a very small player base now, I could understand the rules with more players, but with a community as small as this? We can't just go to another teacher and task for something else we need, we can only rely on one teacher, and that one teacher should be able to task us for multiple things we need at least 2-3 arts at a time. Even two plateaus or three at a time..

Just my opinion on the teaching thing.. I don't think things need to switch up with it, I think things need to be less strict.
Do you reasonably believe that the relaxing of rules would draw in new players?
Again: I don't play as much as you so I can't say for sure. My gut feeling is that you'd see, maybe, an uptick of 2-3 players.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Erasmus »

Do you reasonably believe that the relaxing of rules would draw in new players?
Again: I don't play as much as you so I can't say for sure. My gut feeling is that you'd see, maybe, an uptick of 2-3 players.[/quote]

Will it draw in new players in and of itself? Definitely not. There's no doubt that it has zero impact on drawing new players because it isn't a mechanism new players will identify.

I do believe, however, that it will retain what is brought in through other means whereas is a new player tries the current system, I feel they are more likely to be discouraged and leave.

Look at many of the players that have posted in this thread. The overwhelming majority say they don't play as much because of time. Why would we want to enforce a time sink on players that are already stretched for time?

In my opinion, if we can free up time for players, free up GMs to focus on why the game is popular, which is role playing, I think that would make a tremendous impact. If a GM could log in, throw out some neat support effects, emotes, talismans, <insert cool GM feature here>, it will bring back what made UL fun.

Houses are dead. Especially my character's house. What is the purpose of houses in the current state? Houses made the game fun years ago. Wars, deceit, intrigue, etc. Now, they detract from the new player experience because often you can't find anyone in Threshold because they are sitting inside houses.

So, to wrap up, teaching changes won't directly impact new players. But I believe it will free up old players, allow more time for role play and plots, and retain what we do have or new players that find the game.
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Arnaya
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Arnaya »

Freeing up some of the teaching restrictions is a good thing overall, especially with the limited playerbase. Something that people keep forgetting though.... this is a ROLEPLAYING game. Not WoW/PW/etc/etc/etc.... leveling up is Not the point of the game. Story is, leveling up comes as a consequence of the story... not the story as a consequence of leveling up. So, the teaching system really should be tweaked to allow for that.

As for the houses being dead, That's partly because the houses are... for the most part.... based on beliefs and systems of doing things that are outdated now. People have debated and fought over the beliefs for decades. There really isn't too much else that can be said about it. I've avoided it since I started playing, because honestly... I find debating and trying to tell other people that their beliefs are wrong to be a waste of time, and an exercise in frustration at best.

The rest of the beliefs: Research, Gaining Power, etc.... don't really do anything to draw people in or create storyline. They make it so that people can log in, run around and boost their characters a bit, and log out again. Again, that doesn't create an environment that encourages people to get involved in the game. Houses that have a definitive purpose and things to do in the game would serve the game a lot better overall I suspect, getting people involved and giving them things that they could log in to do. The engine as it's set up prevents those from being tangible things though, unless the GM's spend a lot of time monitoring things or the players get more zealous about filing RP reports.

Arnaya and Uthanatos had proposed something like that about a year ago, but it wasn't every well received at least in game. Having achievable goals also means that something else would have to be available once those goals were achieved. And something that didn't seem like another revolving door of plot lines. Some of the GM's have made it a point of referencing players actions (Zaxun being pissed at Bladeslayer, Jade, Arnaya, Rasputin, etc... for launching an attack on his forces during the Furyan assault was one nice example). Which gives the players a really cool little "bump", and helps them feel invested in the game and its story.

If we want to play a game that we just log into, level up, chat about the latest [Insert sports game/politics/etc Here]... there are dozens of games for that. Underlight is such a Draw because the players have an impact on the storyline, its About the story. The story isn't just some background to give flavor to the world and explain the characters abilities. Without that story, and a consistent one that allows the players to really do something to help shape it.... something that engages them to actively get involved.... any game mechanics/engine tweaks/new levels/new arts/new graphics/teaching system tweaks/revisions....won't help draw in any consistent player base I don't think.

The Strict In Character thing does need to be relaxed a bit, to allow for people who are Not extremely focused on high level, in depth roleplaying to still get involved. Being the followers and subordinates for the more skilled Roleplayers who have taken up leadership roles in the game. An all chiefs and no Indians sort of thing is what we have now. We need to reverse that, by encouraging people that arn't phenomenal roleplayers, but are able to log in and do little things that encourage and support the rest of the roleplaying community (Gather supplies, make stuff, back up in combat, etc...

Does any of that make sense?
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Cherokee
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Cherokee »

I agree with a lot of points made on this thread, but Arnaya has really hit the nail on the head. Underlight is *supposed* to be about storytelling - we're playing a role. That is what makes it unique and sets it apart from all of the other games. If we want to talk about IRL things, there's always IRC, the forums, FB, etc.

I do think one of the main problems is everyone has been relying on GMs or the usual leading players to do something, so that when something isn't going on, people get bored and log off. Instead, everyone should be contributing to the story, no matter how big or small their role.

As mentioned before, if there was less tasking, GMMTs could have more time to support RPs. I think tasking is more of a tool that allows teachers to plot RPs for students, anyway. If we had more spontaneous roleplaying that wasn't driven from tasks, I don't see why they couldn't be rewarded just the same. In SoT, we had many invisible GMs running around that would grant arts and plateaus, and gift items on the spot during grand roleplays that involved just as much effort as a written task would have.

If it could also be worked in that player teachers could train for said spontaneous events, that would also make things even more interesting and less taxing on the GMs. There would need to be more strict limitations and rules for this, I believe. A task would still need to be written to explain what happened, and then possibility supports from dreamers present that give verification that it was done?

Another issue that was touched on that has been a huge problem for a long time now is House wars and the lack of consequences. Conflict is and always will be a major part of this game, it's what makes things interesting. We need to buckle down and figure out a solid solution to fix this. I know Tary posted a great idea not too long ago.
23:48:24: Laviticas: (( I am going to ****ing say this now because I will not be back in the stupid game.)

22:44:20: >Jawsman evokes his own dreamquake, which is bigger than Magnilia's dreamquake.
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Butterfly
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Butterfly »

As one of the "privileged", I was not going to comment, but I feel the need to.

I would still log in and play AJ if she didn't have all the things she has (Marks, crest, spheres, halo) because Underlight is a unique environment. You don't have to be the most powerful or the best roleplayer to have an impact. A newlie can change the direction of an rp. The mindset that Underlight can be won, is frankly, idiotic. No matter how many spheres you have, awesome items you are given, someone will best you and in the end, you are still just a roleplayer, and without others to play with, you're playing by yourself.

Interaction is the key to a game like Underlight, but we have to WANT to interact. Not everyone likes each other, which in a small community is damaging, but we are still people and moving past hurt feelings and such is difficult. Forcing interaction, currently through tasks, is a short lived and often despised, method of going about interaction. Some of the most fun I have had was not for a task or scripted in any way. While a large storyline is awesome, letting things happen organically is very much needed. Let players decide where an rp goes, let them push the boundaries. This is not to criticize the GMs in any way, I know theirs is a thankless job, but forcing a script that doesn't make sense to the players or the overall storyline isn't fair. This is one of the current issues I have with this era of the game, the story keeps changing and none of the changes make sense. I can sometimes play at peak times, but those are also peak times for me to play with my kids or do things for my paying job, but even then I miss out on a lot of the "fun". I don't know if there is a solution to this.

Having played SoT and heard about everything that happened after I left, giving the players each and everything they want doesn't keep people or draw new people in for long. It often ends up with the opposite effect, people getting what they want, getting bored and leaving or people not getting what they want and leaving.

In regards to the teaching system, I would like to see a change. Three of the four foci are suffering due to lack of teachers and high train plats. I would love every teacher to be able to Train to the level that they have the art, that doesn’t completely solve the problem if you only have one focus teacher, but I think it is a start. Limit sphereing to MTs maybe? I know depending on the GM teachers makes more work for the team. So maybe have them in when there is no other way to learn or plat the art? I know in SoT, there was talk of some arts self-platting, which I thought was awesome.

I don't think there is a quick fix, I only know that I will keep playing until I have no reason to keep logging in.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Uthanatos »

On teaching, it's been brought up several times about using RP points to plat arts, which is a reasonable idea...however, I would want people to RP something that sparks the improvement, which basically just makes it self tasking....oh look revolving door....

Another thing is I think the MT council should, by and large, take over the responsibilities of teaching, adjusting the system, and as a group, dealing with evaluation of apprenticeships and granting of halos, which would take that off the GM's plates. As far as GM teachers go, I think they should be able to interact more than just to offer tasks and listen to reports, which I know, is hard right now because many people are at a point where their arts are beyond player teaching....oh look, another revolving door....

Seriously though, a responsible MT council which can be moderated by Akkadian, (stepping in to evaluate accusations of corruption, or making the final call if the council cannot reach a decision) would relieve a lot of the burden from Akkadian in particular and other GMs as well in regards to apprenticeships.

Just some ideas, don't flame me with your rage.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Tember »

As Arnaya stated that this was a roleplaying game and not wow or other games.. Very true, but that is where the problem comes in at. That is what kind of games most people like to play. Once you've exhausted every roleplay and task idea and run it into the ground, it gets boring and then people go back to those other games.

We have players and GMs alike that are stuck in 1990 underlight and won't let the game progress and become something that it should be. All because "it's a roleplaying game, this is how it has to be" it is true..Underlight is one of a kind- but, here again, only a hand full of people wanting to play and millions in wow.

Underlight could consist of many many things and there wouldn't be anything wrong with that. It could reach every single need and want from a players prospective. It could be full of fighting monsters like what I like to do. To roleplaying like we all like to do. To raids, to npc's where you get mini quests.. there's potential for all sorts of neat things, but then again 1990 mindset.

Personally for me. I started losing interest when Tember had her wordsmith mark snatched off like a nasty bandaid. Tember and Jade worked hard to bring the mark back. But yet Tember had hers taken because she didn't "clean as many rooms in the library" as Jade did. I don't scream favoritism, but I felt it was very unfair.

And I see all kinds of people in game with marks and double halos but, I see no one doing anything at all with it, yet they're keeping their marks. I seem to think the gossip column and interviewing should be enough to have a wordsmith mark.

I made a post a while back about gaining plats for excellent roleplaying and was ripped a new one for even suggesting it. People, said that "it's a roleplaying game, that's what you're supposed to do anyways". You roleplay while doing a task for a reward don't you?. There's zero difference.

I see suggestions being made on the forums and the 1990 folks are slamming it. I see light-hearted posts being talked down to and locked. And even suggestions I've made were told to keep it off the boards and then never heard from again.

Underlight has to change in order for people to want to play it. After playing 20 years, It is time for new ideas, new changes, people being open to new things, new ways to fight. What once was wrong for the old underlight may be perfect for now.



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coltdorsey
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by coltdorsey »

I haven't made it through everyone's reponses, yet, however just on the topic of houses and current population my thoughts are that there aren't enough players now to support all the open houses that players want to open or more importantly are still open. Players either need to find valid IC reason to consolidate in to one-two houses tops (given our current population size), or 3-4 houses need to be closed leaving one-two or none. Only then can the community of characters find common ground again and unite under one to two banners, instead of opening more houses than the game can currently sustain without stagnation.

If I could think of a way to have Thunderman justify HC consolidating with DoL or PC, I would pitch it IG.

That leaves us (players) needing to understand that if we can't consolidate to one-two houses, then the weakest 3-4 houses need closed by Xun'rok or some other means and to not rage quit from your house closing. Yes this would put HC in the cross hairs, too. With only one house open, dreamers will have to join for the house benefits or unite a large percentage of the would-be new freespirit population to open house #2.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Erasmus »

On the topic of, "Underlight is a role playing game and people shouldn't need to have high spheres and such to role play". In the game's early days, I would agree with you to a degree because the population supported a wide variety of plots, actions, and just general "things to do".

Now it's not that way. But even back the , and even more so now in my opinion, arts and spheres are tools that help lend credence to your role play. Emotes and speech is fine and what-not, but let's face it, Push doesn't have the same effect as Razorwind, Return, Blast, or Abjure as far as effect. And a blood chalk elemen isn't as cool as a forged <really cool named amazing item>. Even if the game isn't about cool gear and levels as much as WoW, it still is about that on a lesser degree.

We can say that newly awakened can participate in roleplays too, but in reality, many old-schoolers aren't going to listen to an unsphered dreamer trying to alter their grand role play that they have been concocting over months. But if someone walks in who's 8 or 9th sphere, I'll guarantee they get more of a look than a lowbie. Just the way things are.

As far as houses go, yes, we are spread thin right now. There's not enough to support them. And truthfully, maybe they do need to be closed. All of them. And whoever gets together to reopen them has to be able to support it. But again, that may not work either.

There isn't an all-encompassing answer. My suggestions were just quality of life suggestions to try and free up time and energy to be able to focus on role playing instead of always hunting, gen-sitting, or tasking for every little thing.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Coraal »

I realize that I am a fairly 'young' voice when it comes to Underlight as I have only been around for maybe a year. But in that time I have seen things, heard things, and genuinely love the experience that Underlight has to offer; warts and all.

I agree with Tember in a fashion that some of the mindsets of the game are holdovers from a time when the game was much larger than it is currently in terms of both active players and numerous avenue's with which to explore an rp as complex as Unlderlight has to offer. Like any real world civilization, the game had a "Golden Age" and then has moved through periods of decline. The task is to determine a method to restore interest and draw older players back, and draw new players entirely. Believe me, 'retro' gaming is making a comback: look for example at the popularity of Undertale. An amazing game with arcade fashion game play but that was enhanced with an EPIC storyline. That was all that it took to get that game soaring into massive popularity.

One game I have found myself going to again and again is Minecraft. While I know that sounds juvenile, hear me out. There are a massive number of online servers for minecraft players to enjoy, some of them solely rp based. My point though is that in my exploration of these servers, no few of the players have shared with me that there are also a very large number of text based role playing games out there currently. These are websites that allow purely text game play and some of them have excellent storytellers to keep the players interested. Something like old D&D style playing which is also making a comeback. What if the players and staff of Underlight took it upon themselves to launch something of a PR campaign to visit some of the forums that support the text based role playing genre to promote Underlight? So many young players have never even heard of this game and there is a missed opportunity that we as a community can tap into to attempt to garner some more attention. And considering that Underlight offers the experience of a text based role playing game with visual effects and interaction? It is a bridge between two worlds.

As for the in-game issues; we must be open to change and new ideas. Yes, this game has players who have participated for 20 years and who have earned their abilities, spheres, standing, etc. as a result of that dedication. I do not speak down to their efforts or achievements, but you must admit that if the game does not also work diligently to enhance the game play for the new and youngest players we will continue to see the City fading away. I do not suggest to ignore the elder players by any means, but maybe it is time to expand their role within the City?

What if we could have a sub-GM team created. This group would be composed of elder players who are perhaps bored with the experience and are given minor role play functions to enhance the game for the younger players? These same players could interact directly with the younger community and have access to abilities (OOC teleports, emotes, manifestations of arts, mare characters, etc) that are used solely for smaller scale rp interactions. The GM's can focus on the large story arcs but the day-to-day rp's that keep players coming back would be enhanced in such a fashion. The team could potentially even have this on a scheduled time frame. So for example: Argo is an elder dreamer who is added to the sub-GM team. His abilities as a sub-GM are only available for small windows of time before the abilities "lock". During that time, Argo interacts with younger players, perhaps invisible, and gives them a small taste of the rp environment. So the younger players decide to go into the Pits. Argo can use the sub-GM abilities to make emotes to lead to them to a unique item (minor forged), that carries with it a history lesson of the City, and requires the younger player to solve a riddle to free the item in question. The rp is minor, gives direct personal attention to the younger player, and provides a tangible reward in the form of the lesser item for that player to use going forward. In addition, the player is rewarded and gains a sense of participation and accomplishment, but more importantly inclusion in the game itself, and is likely thus to return for the chance at another potential experience. Now couple that with the larger, City wide story arcs, and you have multiple avenues for rp game play without direct GM appearance. Additionally, the sub-GM's could be provided guidelines to avoid abuse and also to prevent cross interaction with the established main story arcs of the City. That way the player who is a sub-GM can still participate as a player, but has an expanded role in the community. I personally would find that very rewarding.

As for the nature of the Teaching structure, I tend to agree with Taryag and Tember. I feel that if players were given multiple options for personal growth in terms of abilities and spheres that more players might dedicate the time to advance. Some of those options could be mini-quests offered by NPC's via the mission boards with an Art or plat as a reward. You could still have teachers and ordained players who focus on the role play aspect of teaching. And you could allow the self-train option for those players who choose to advance solely on their own. Of course detailed parameters would be necessary for all of these avenues but the point is that players like options because it gives them the sense of control over the direct fate and growth of their characters. All of these options could be seriously considered and manifested with a bit of work and creativity.

On the issue of in-game situations: the stress and angst caused by the lack of current players is part of the reason that so many seem to be stressed out. Major personal rp ideas fall silent due to lack of interest and, while the GM's are working very hard to provide those day-to-day experiences that allow the game to flow, there is still a large gap preventing serious interest from coming back. So as players, it is OUR responsibility to work together to find methods to keep inclusion going. In that front I would highly recommend, and am completely open to, the idea of having an OOC conversation with any number of players to formulate rp ideas that could be used to "shake things up". As an example: Coraal, Uthanatos, Tember, and Rasputin work on the sly to create a device that could be hugely beneficial to the City, or seriously detrimental if it falls into the wrong hands. You have players now from three strongholds working with a FreeSpirit on an rp direction that was created OOC and that has the potential to affect a large number of current players. In addition, the added intrigue of this collaboration could also draw back the friends of those players who wish to be part of something different. I'm just throwing it out there.

Finally, I have personally written some major story arcs for the City and will be presenting them to the GM team soon. As someone who has been both a GM and player in many varieties of role playing games, both table top and other; I am willing to be part of the solution to the issues this community faces. The GM's alone cannot save Underlight. We, as players, have a responsibility to the game we all love and need to come together and determine the future of this amazing gaming world. I do not wish to see Underlight fade into obscurity and I do not believe that any of you do either.

Thank you for reading this long post and I wished to extend additional thanks to all of you for your participation in this thread. It is really, really good to see that so many still care enough about the game to come and discuss a topic like this.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Dina »

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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by -Lacie- »

Ok ok ok ok ok..... I hate posts like this, but I'm putting my $.35 in here. And in black and white, so as to not disturb your precious eyeballs (you're welcome).

I'm one of those older players.... joined UL in '98 or '97...can't remember, hell, it was too long ago. UL was the FIRST computer-based game I ever played. It wasn't the last. So why am I not playing my WoW toon or some other intensely more developed game? Why, oh WHY did I get resurrected???? I'll tell you.

Roleplay. Plain and simple. UL was such a hit when it came out, because it offered something no other game did. That... is still true. Outdated? Yes. Needs upgrading? Of course. But the facts are the facts.

So let's think on a few things for a moment, shall we? And yes, I have my condescending hat on. :P

How many minutes...hours have you spent on this post... whining and complaining? You want things done. So do I. So do we all. But there comes a time to step back and look at what you're saying. You want X, Y, and Z different. Ok, so do I. Now what? You want a bunch of volunteers to spend MORE of their FREE time making YOU happy, so YOU can spend 1 hour a week in game? Really? Seriously???? Go volunteer at a food bank.

There are some (I'd guess about a dozen that I've read so far) WONDERFUL roleplays in your whinings. If you want the teaching system changed.... get your sweet, round buttocks in the game and CHANGE it!

Want to build a 8'ft tall statue of Zaxun to play 'Pin the Tail on the Bad Guy' with? DREAM and go build it! You don't like the way the houses are set up???? Get in there and build a house of ill repute or whatever your little heart desires! Wait... a Casino? Hmmmm... interesting idea....

I can remember (barely) a couple of decades ago, when people used to stand around in threshold (in mass numbers) and WHINE about what all we COULDN'T do in UL. Well, guess what? WE CAN NOW!

@Dina - Love you too *throat punches Dina* I truly love interacting with your character and miss that joy!

Let me just address the PC thing...without giving away too much. When I got back, there was an abundance of goodie-two shoe crap going on. I nearly broke my promise and left UL because of it. But... I don't break promises, and opened KoES. In other words, I saw what UL didn't have and did my flat-level best to bring something new to the game. Did it work? Did population levels rise and evil flourish? Of course it did. Am I a GM? Nope... I told them what to do with their NDA and I meant it.

The PC is an experiment in what can happen when people are tired of the norm and want to do something themselves to change it. Yea, it's daring and it prolly wasn't meant to be as successful as it turned out. Please, my fellow addicts, use this as a template. The small group trying to rebuild the EA are to be highly commended and we should encourage them all we can.

When we were all playing before, we (most of us) were teenagers and early 20's. We played after school or when college classes were out. Ok, welcome to the 21st century. People grew up, propagated & made lil dreamers (Pheasant, buy a cage). How did the roleplays work then? Remember? Some old fart dreamer would put up a lengthy post (journal) about how they were going to do this and that. Others read these posts. People got curious and entered the DreamState.

So while you're wiping noses and changing driddies, think. Coraal told me the other day that while he's away from the game, he's thinking on ideas. Exactly how much time do you people waste watching stupid cat videos and asking eachother "Sup?" on your phones?

So, as the good Catholic girl I am.... (and yes, I'm really Catholic), I issue you all a challenge.

We are in the season of Lent. For you pagans who don't know what Lent is, it's a time (40 days and 40 nights) that we try to give up something for a reason. You don't have to believe to try this out. For the next month, give up some time on your smart phones, ride a bus to work or do something YOURSELF to give yourself 30 minutes per day to think about SOLUTIONS to the very good problems you have listed above. And don't tell me you can't write either. You've already burnt that bridge by posting here.

Tired of doing the same crap in UL over and over????? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. If all you do is make an rp post, and then dream once a week... I bet if the idea has ANY rp value, people will make THAT the hour they dream. Gosh, if 10 people did that.... that's 10 different hours of interesting stuff going on.

Don't wanna dream at 11pm local time? Ok, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Create a roleplay that YOU want to do, send out plenty of notice (be it post, Notice, etc). Daily life is boring. Granted. That's why I raised my kids and retired. Sure, I have lots more time to dream than you do, but it's the IDEAS that is the draw with this game. Where else can you think up some crazy idea and actually have the medium to at least explore the idea with a group of highly creative people?

Oh wait. You tried that ONCE and it didn't work? What? Are you three years old? Of course not. First attempts at ANYTHING rarely succeed, ask any fledging bird, or newborn mammal.

So why am I playing UL still? I will be totally honest with you. I am trying to keep my brain as active as I can in order to prevent dementia. :D You think I'm joking... I'm not. This is a game for the brain. If you just want something to shoot at, there's PLENTY of those. But truly, think about this for a moment. How many games are out there (damn, I miss Riven/Myst) actually require you to THINK? THAT is the lure of Underlight and why this game can and must live on.

To the GM's: Love you guys... thank you for all your hard work. *I* won't let you down!

To Tary: What language are you coding in? I'm a programmer. Can I help?

The men and women that built and keep this game going for so very long did it to serve US. It's about damn time we turn the tables. It is time, my fellow addicted roleplayers, that we return the favor and do for them! I was away from this game for 14 years. It was a sad, miserable time to wake up in the middle of the night with some wonderful idea, and realize I had NO way to see it lived out inside a State of Dreams. I'll be DAMNED if I allow this place to succumb to the ravages of blood-splattered screens and fancy graphics!

I love you all and I am honored to be in this small, but highly creative group of people.

~Lacie~
~Lacie~
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Screchethan Kabal
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Pheasant »

He does have a cage, but he is a beloved, intelligent, and sensitive member of my family, not a pretty decoration in an iron box. He's only I'm his cage for sleep and when I go to work. I care about his happiness, so he's a bit more important than a video game. I only really mentioned his keyboard eating habits as a joke. What honestly really keeps me from dreaming is my poor health and all that wedding planning. That date is rushing up on me. While I am doing a bit better health wise, that wedding stuff is still a big deal. It's nothing to do with UL that keeps me away, but more real life and I can't change that. My real life is a priority and when I have time and energy for UL I do try my best to make an appearance. I can say that I will be around more now since I seem to be recovering from my illness, but mostly on the weekends. And I'm fine with that. I won't be putting a video game above my health, my family, and stuff I need to take care of though.
And for the record, I played under a different name back in the day. I love UL even though I had been dragged into OOC drama once and that drove me away till now. I make an effort to be here. I love wiritng my part of a story. I love you all for giving me this creative outlet and I love this game. Nothing can change that either.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Uthanatos »

Wait...while I know it's not a problem solver....are blood spattered screens and fancy graphics an option....okay maybe not blood, but ooze, or goo....hmmm
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
― Jim Butcher, Cold Days
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Pheasant »

Uthanatos wrote:Wait...while I know it's not a problem solver....are blood spattered screens and fancy graphics an option....okay maybe not blood, but ooze, or goo....hmmm
I mean, it doesn't have to be fancy. Who doesn't like a little pixelated gore? Mortal Kombat was pretty entertaining... :twisted:
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Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

@Pheasant thanks for that comment about OOC drama.. I can think of several players who left because of it and all I want to say is come back! Doesn't matter if it's a Gm you got into a ooc situation with they don't care anymore and deep inside I'm sure they want you to come back. So this post is for those who left because of drama. The drama is over unless we as in all of us create it. If we don't give it power it's nothing. Come back and let's have fun. N should you guys run into any bull crap speak with Lu Chaos lol I'm sure he wouldn't mind helping you out. In a peaceful way if possible of course.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Sorsha »

Lacie said:
so YOU can spend 1 hour a week in game? Really? Seriously???? Go volunteer at a food bank.
I volunteer at a food bank...........
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Techgeist
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Techgeist »

I'm a cop.

I got voluntold that I am humping a Midnight rotation for this month. I have two days off a week. I work off-duty jobs on those days. I used to hook up my personal laptop to a power inverter and my phone's hot spot to play on off-duty. Some asshole called in a complaint that I was 'playing Minecraft' while I was sitting on a deserted country road, guarding a hole in the ground while the construction company who hired me were off trying to procure enough concrete to fill it in at 2am. The takeaway is that I got written up for connecting and unauthorized piece of equipment to a power inverter in my car. By the time I cycle off this rotation and can get back to playing, I'm pretty sure all the momentum the EA role play might have had will have fizzled or have been handed off to the PC. Which is unfortunate timing and bad luck to me.

So, if I'm not at work, I'm home sleeping, in the gym, or doing wedding stuff for my own wedding that's coming up. Even if I didn't have all that going on, I just don't have much motivation to go in; I spend 8-12 hours a day wading in the depths of human stupidity, greed, narcissism, and selfishness. I put up with people lying to me, calling me every damned name in the book, and threatening myself and my family in very tangible ways. I really don't enjoy spending my limited spare time dealing with cartoonish caricatures of the very real evil I see on a daily basis.

Then, when the GMs do something totally unexpected and drop a badass role play in front of me; I finally have something that genuinely made me look forward to playing the game, I had to put up with the so-called 'evil' dreamers getting all up in my character's business because they can't stand not being the god-damned center of attention for 15 minutes. The constant intrusions, attempts to sneak spies into his midsts (which, I would have ended up allowing for story sake, if I was given two seconds to breathe and actually set up the damned story), and offers of 'help' because, again, some people just can not bear to not be involved in everything (and which, again, I eventually would have given in to, when I had some sort of idea of where I was going with it). By the time I'd finally figured out where I wanted to try and go with everything, I just couldn't bring myself to open Word and type it up to send in.

I played my character morally ambiguous for a reason, he will more often than not fall on the side of 'good' but he doesn't really give a shit if he has to do something 'evil' to achieve it. That doesn't mean helping the big bad until it becomes apparent he's going to lose, then announcing I was really good the whole time and trying to stifle his plan (I always felt the rest of the city should hold Nuremberg style trials for dreamer collaborators after each big bad event). I find neutral characters to be the most fun. Easiest way to put it; professional wrestling has two character types heels and babyfaces. The heel is the slimy, underhanded villain; he'll cheat to win, savagely beat an opponent, kick puppies, rob nuns, etc. The baby face is the boyscout, he walks little old ladies across the street, fall for the heel's tricks every time, etc. You can have a heel become a face or vice versa, but that usually takes some monumental shift in the character's demeanor and world view. Then you have a character like Stone Cold Steve Austin. His character never changed. One day he was kicking his bosses' asses and getting cheered, the next day he stole the Rock's championship belt by cheating and he was getting booed, despite the crowd reaction, the character was essentially the same. Guy never changed a damned thing about himself, but because his target changed, people's view of him changed. I like the idea of a character who is true to himself and his ideals and is the hero of his own story.

Another problem is that certain players seem to think this is a game you can actually win. There is no victory screen and even if there was in my case it'd say, "Congratulations, you've wasted more than 20 years of your life, you're an old fart now, but at least you made 6th sphere once." The point is, if you're playing to 'win' get the Hell out. You're not helping and you're not making the game fun for anyone other than you.

I know a lot of you guys didn't play table top or LARP before UL. The point of RolePlaying games is to tell an interactive, interesting story. I once attended a LARP for Call of Chthulu (sp? I'm not a huge Lovecraft fan). We all arrived in period costume, except one guy brought his power-gamer cousin who showed up in shorts and a t-shirt. While we were going over our pre-made character sheets, learning our motivations, etc. Mr. Power-Gamer was pouring over the rule book for exploits. Well, after our first encounter will some mooks, Mr. Power-Gamer decides to shoot my character in the back of the head. He then goes on the murder everyone at the party. The game lasted about an hour. This was not a cheap event. It cost nearly $350 for me and my then-girlfriend to attend. They rented out this old Victorian house and did it up with puzzle rooms and traps, hired actors from the local college to play the bad guys and served a formal dinner (that we didn't even get to story-wise). Power-gamer guy was supposed to be a 70-year-old doctor who's only motivation was to ensure that his daughter and son-in-law survived the event - he killed those two characters first. Then spent the whole rest of the night laughing and gloating about how he won. We eventually got to tour the house and see all the badass stuff they set up. The plan was to move over into our session for Vampire the Requiem (we were the local chapter of the Camarilla, so we had to hold a session to affect the regional story that night and Mr. Power-gamer was actually only there for that), but no one really felt like playing so we got into character, held a five minute vote and pissed off to the Goth club while Mr. Power-gamer bitched and moaned about how he came all the way down from a neighboring state for the V:tR session.

Basically, I said all that to say this and answer the original question Lu asked, you can't shit in the apple pie, then sit there and smugly ask why no one wants to eat it anymore.

I'll be back when this rotation ends in the second week of April and I'll try to find some reason to be in on my few nights off.
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Inzoum
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Inzoum »

Alright, well... that's a lot of walls of text... I don't intend to address everything, but there are a few things I want to mention.

First off, my personal situation. As you all know, I live in Belgium, which makes it very difficult to align my game time with anyone else's other than Purple Lace who pretty much lives in the game, and Cupid, who just so happens to also hail from Europe. This situation makes it so that most of my interactions have to be asynchronous. Quests that would require my character to hold events are pretty much impossible, unless an attendance of 2 is considered successful. I'm sitting on a number of quests that are ready to report, but either my teachers have stopped playing or changes in our respective schedules makes it impossible to align our times again, making the whole process arduous to complete. Cool stuff happens in game when I'm not around. I get told "oh, the Fifth Sphere Hall is now the Forgers' Guild! You just need to ask Akkadian for a key!". Newsflash: My game times have not aligned with Akkadian's in 5 months. I guess I'm just not joining the Forgers' Guild then.

Furthermore, as I posted on a separate thread, I just started a new job, which is absolutely awesome but also places a strain on my gametime. I need to wake up much much earlier than I ever did, around 5:30 AM in order to prepare, force a breakfast down my throat, catch a train at 6:30 and a bus to get to work by 8. so while this would be a great time to mingle with the North American player base, there's just no way I'm setting my alarm clock EARLIER just for that, I need my zzzzs. I have a bit of free time when I get home from work, I'll sometimes find a few early bird players then, but most of the time I have other real life needs. I spend my evenings with my wife as much as possible, we're coming out of a difficult patch and working on improving our relationship, it's been very positive so far and is the number one priority for me. My evenings end around 10:30-11:00 PM where I'm either collapsing from exhaustion (my new work is quite physically taxing), or just opting to go to bed at a decent hour in light of the 5:30 alarm clock waiting for me the next day. Again, 11 PM is a good time for me to interact with people, it syncs up with noon / early afternoon for most of you, and that works out nicely, but I can't lose some sleep over it. If I do maintain an online presence during those hours, it'll mostly be in bed via my tablet.

It's been very difficult getting anything done in game apart from the times when I was in full unoccupied unemployment and could stay up till 2:30 AM, which is pretty much when Inzoum became Ruler of the Alliance. Even then, my role was mostly about giving a direction and tone to the House while the actual interactions were delegated to my Guardian Anasina. Fast forward a bit and Anasina's gone, and suddenly there's a lot less getting done in the House. Well guys, such is life, I can't do better but I'm open to anyone stepping up to help me out / take my place. I love AoE but there's not much holding it together anymore with my new schedule, which of course makes it unattractive and boring to its members. This brings me to another point, of which I'm also guilty as I just detailed above: People expect others to come up with the good stuff for them. I do it because I'm basically not playing the same game all of you are, in my Underlight, I'm the only player trying to catch up with what happened when I was sleeping. Other players have entirely no excuse. I won't give any names but we're such a small community I think it wouldn't make much of a difference either way, there was one character who joined the Alliance and later left saying "nothing ever happens here, it's boring". This character sent me a message shortly after joining asking if there was anything they could do for the House. My answer to that was to think of things we could do together, any suggestion. We have a similar thread on the AoE members forums, and neither have received any concrete reactions. Basically: people joining a group and expecting to be spoonfed fun activities and not contribute any of their own. "Entertain me!"... Well tough luck guys, entertaining you in such a fashion would require me being awake at 4:00 AM. That's just not happening.

Nowadays, I pop in every now and then to make sure that the people who post on my Mission Board get their rewards, thwack a shammie or two in Albino Caves, fluff around a few items in AoE's Vaults, Sense Dreamers in Alliance of the Eclipse, or anywhere I happen to be (because it follows me around), and then log out. I'd hate AoE to fall if I were to stop playing altogether, but let's face it, I don't have much more to offer the community than the game has in store for me with my current situation, we're at an impasse baring the implementation of more asynchronicity.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by -Lacie- »

Thank you, Sorsha. You have brought to light the ONLY problem I have with this game.... people who take things out of context. Well done. Here's the original quote:

How many minutes...hours have you spent on this post... whining and complaining? You want things done. So do I. So do we all. But there comes a time to step back and look at what you're saying. You want X, Y, and Z different. Ok, so do I. Now what? You want a bunch of volunteers to spend MORE of their FREE time making YOU happy, so YOU can spend 1 hour a week in game? Really? Seriously???? Go volunteer at a food bank.
And here is Sorsha taking offense with part of it.....
Lacie said:

so YOU can spend 1 hour a week in game? Really? Seriously???? Go volunteer at a food bank.



I volunteer at a food bank...........
My statement is a call to action and a compliment...

Her remark suggests an offensive comment. Get a grip, Sorsha. REAREAD the sentence. Move your lips if it helps.... say the words outloud.

Go on... all of you keep whining. I'm going to find another game to play. Later. Sorry Brian... I did try.

~L~

ps..... I HATE POSTS LIKE THIS!
~Lacie~
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Tember »

The post was doing fine and a lot of good points and suggestions were being made. Your post however was very cocky and just weird. Maybe it is you that should get a grip :)
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by fancypearl »

Lol this same conversation keeps happening though I like seeing how the opinions of the game are evolving. Personally I'd agree need more strong personalities leading role plays however I think that happens as people are comfortable and willing to do so.

I still believe it comes down to same as always exposure to niche markets of people who love to roleplay.

Sometimes just exposure period such as a gaming network. However personally I'd recommend setting up the ability to create accounts make and delete characters after launching the game. Otherwise most gaming or public settings will just consider it a pain in the ass.

My encounters used to be from the table toppers any graphical "role playing" game was a complete joke. However due to its age and old style graphics may come into favor. I'd check out posting in conventions forums or perhaps advert for them .. boards local shops send a blast out emailing to long list of shops? Dunno what little exposure to Pathfinder I had they seemed a pretty close community anyone know anyone to get the word out at some tournies or something?

Far as sub gming the teachers kinda are sub GM's.. . Creating handing out quests to adventurers like special GM ran npc would lol... Rewarding for completing it. IMO anyways ..But it's kinda got this whole feel of advance advance advance without worrying about story that'll come later.. except for a lot of us.. it already did lol. So now we are struggling to continue it in anyway possible because we enjoyed this so much. And it's getting a redesign and overhaul as we go. Where we all are tossing the storyline sorta as we all have done as we go except.. free to go anywhere. Earned so much done many things the thought of losing all we worked for being able to have and use those memories is well traumatic enough to quit for some. So the question becomes how do you create excitement anticipation without a serious threat or losing players due to something else? Things start loosening up falling apart stagnating kicking everything hoping something happens. Solution? No idea I'd be inclined to let the kids play in the pool how they like long as they play nice n don't drown/kill/maim each other lol.. maybe look up interesting things to do direct focus to one thing or another.

N yeah I have ..Almost endless amount of time to play I pretty much split between docs/ plans/ Netflix/ music/ roommates/ underlight lol. Hopefully my meds n therapy can help me be able to do more things including remember my ass from hole n ground maybe try taking on some real to stuff try leading or starting something. This game has been my home my sanctuary in a perfect storm of homelessness, various other crap to the point I don't care what happens to what character or when. I simply enjoy it.

There has got to be some way to go on an advertisement blitz where this game becomes cool to a community. Rebrand, relabel, change to storyline, wipe everything, keep everything, change the rules, don't, redesign don't.. don't really care, make a bunch of different Ul's connect them all like Minecraft or don't.. try different things try to get beta testers from the targeted community.. find out what's wrong raise funds change it.. try again. I mean who doesn't wanna beta test its soon cool :p.. *rolls eyes*. Not sure if mentioned before but was knocked out due to cost. Put it on steam.. even for lil bit, reviews there are usually pretty boss lol, though again lol get an account thing setup... That's always a pain the ass IMO having to go to some weird website to set something up instead of using said gaming networks account.

There I did the thing.. *tosses her change on the counter.
Last edited by fancypearl on Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dina

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Dina »

-Lacie- wrote: @Dina - Love you too *throat punches Dina* I truly love interacting with your character and miss that joy!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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