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So what's really going on?

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Lu Chaos
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So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

Hello family. The reason for this topic is too find out why did some of you completely quit or why have you cut out some of your playing time. Also... I would like to find out what would it take to get you all to be more active.

Remember if we become more active the new players will stay and our community can grow.

Thanks.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Uthanatos »

My playing time got cut by a project at work, I'm at a point where I get off at 1AM get a few hours of sleep, get up at 5, get my flatmate's children ready for school, get back at 10, sleep till 2 and get ready for work, but I get in as much as I can.
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
― Jim Butcher, Cold Days
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Calabosh
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Calabosh »

I dunno I just really have not had the urge to play. Plus I hate doing tasks and I am at the point is all I have to do is tasks to advance. I want to advance, but doing tasks is not for me, and usually sphere tasks take way too much damn time. Which I rather spend playing other games as of now. Just every time I do log in nothing is really going on, so I only stay for a few minutes then wake. I get bored easily!
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Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

I do agree that more role played activities should result in spheres. Not just waiting for someone to grant it to you. On the other hand.. We need more activity overall. A lot of us only play when there is an event and that's not good enough. If there is something we could all do in game to fix your boredom let it be known here in this thread. This is the city of dreams. We can pretty much do whatever you want. Let me know and the other players know what we can do to enhance your fun.
Dina

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Dina »

Lets see here:
1. I was promoted at my job and now I'm the new HR chick, so I am constantly working. I never knew 90% of people have no work ethic...Ok at my work, 99% have no work ethic, so my job is very hectic. I am exhausted and brain dead by the time I come home, then I get on my laptop...slide my work flash drive into it and start working from home. In the meantime, I am on call 24/7 as HR. Doesn't sound like a promotion huh? LOL

2. No motivation. Same houses, same stuff going on, so when I go in, Dina stands around just pumping out tasks for the main part. Yes, you may say..."Make a change!" People have bugged Dina to open a house. Just what we need, another house with 4 active members, or 3... I don't have the time to even remotely try this anyway. Nor do I have the patience to try and try...then get nowhere.

3. Dina has one commitment to the City and that is to her Apprentice, that is basically keeping me from leaving period.
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Arnaya
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Arnaya »

Calabosh wrote:I dunno I just really have not had the urge to play. Plus I hate doing tasks and I am at the point is all I have to do is tasks to advance. I want to advance, but doing tasks is not for me, and usually sphere tasks take way too much damn time. Which I rather spend playing other games as of now. Just every time I do log in nothing is really going on, so I only stay for a few minutes then wake. I get bored easily!
And that, seems to be one of the main things going on. No one really wants to do anything. It's pretty much all about advancement in game, the people that want to actually Roleplay and do story stuff have gotten frustrated and left, or at least really laid off their playtime. The options for conflict are really limited, because lets face it.... any significant conflict in game means one group getting stomped into the ground endlessly, or having to rely on support from others that doesn't exist because the others aren't playing. The story stuff, a lot of people seem to have a: "been there, done that. Whatever, its happened before"... so they don't get engaged. Or put in a forced effort to stay around for it to show support (During which, they're mostly browsing the web, watching youtube, etc... and not actually playing, despite their character being in game). And as soon as the RP event is over, or they feel they've put in their time with it.... they just log out.

The technical issues of the game: Random and heavy lag, getting "stormed" for 5 to 15 minutes add to the issues in terms of both Conflict, and general roleplaying. Which means people get more frustrated again, and start to feel that there's no point. Even if they themselves aren't suffering from it, guaranteed others are.... which means that the non-stormy people are basically fighting alone and getting shot a lot by their friends/allies due to those friends/allies lagging so badly.

All of that leaves only: Advancing your character. Which, like Calabosh said.... can be a chore sometimes. This is especially true for the higher quests that require other people (Groups in particular), or GM support.

The rest of the problem seems to be frustration with things. The "Bad guy" characters like Lu, Lace, and a couple of others.... pretty much dominated the game for a while. Insulting, deriding, threatening, etc... anyone that publicly disagreed with them or opposed their works in even the smallest ways. From appearances, they got the majority of the GM support, and couldn't be effectively opposed. Nor could much of anything else happen, because people just didn't want to deal with the drama... so wouldn't play. Which meant none of the "Good" or "Neutral" characters events got supported by the other players, let alone GM's. So, they got frustrated and stopped playing as much. Meanwhile, since the "Bad Guy" characters (I'm using that term for the basically selfish characters, seemingly out to screw other characters over for their own benefit. Lies, deceit, manipulation, threats, etc... being their primary tools) had banded together, they were able to get their plans supported at least by their own members. Which led to more frustration from the "Good" and "Neutral" character's controllers. So again, people left or seriously cut back their playtimes/engagement with in game events. The controllers of the "Good" and "Neutral" characters were more negative and less willing to do things, which made them less enjoyable for people to interact with.... so fewer people played again.

Needing GM MT's, or one of the few other high (and mostly inactive) train teachers to advance a character, and only seeing one every two weeks or so, has further added to things. Especially when the GM MT's are seen, everyone either swarms them (so there's a two hour long line to get up to them), or ignores them (If they aren't immediately needed for quests and reports), so the GM MT logs out after a couple of minutes. That makes the GM MT's more of a chore for the GM's to run, so they don't run them as often, which then causes more frustrating with them not being around... and the cycle continues.

Top that off with all the Real world stuff people are dealing with (Jobs, families, personal and health problems), the game comes in at a pretty low priority. A couple of us have been trying to figure out how to draw more peoples interest to the game, but its been like beating our heads against a wall... because lets face it. Real life stuff HAS to take priority.

The only thing that's really come out that seems likely to change things, is getting more people in game and doing things involving others. This means either a large influx (20+) of new players/characters, or a bunch (20+) of old players/characters coming in and getting engaged in things. But that means the general apathy has to be overcome, which means the players will need to put some effort into playing and being engaged until something fires them up.... so a few things do have to be addressed in there to help the players hold their interest.

One other little thing that I've heard a few comments about, are the seeming lack of a coherent plot line for the game right now. Things seem really scattered, and more like the players are an Audience than involved participants in the evolution and development of the game world. I REALLY hope that doesn't come across like a bash to the GM's, because I know they put a lot of work and time into things (especially since they are volunteers). It is just a perception that I've heard a couple of people mention. Great, complex storylines are fantastic.... but players have to be able to follow them, and they have to appear consistent overall (a couple of twists are expected to pop up, but there can't be a twist every 2nd event... established history can't constantly be wrong or re-written...else it looses any significance and people quit paying attention because it doesn't matter anyway). A general lack of communication has also been the subject of a couple of complaints, never knowing if there's going to be support for something... no replies to e-mails, no, or whispered mention of rules changes, frequent rules changes (especially for teaching), etc. Again, this isn't meant to bash the GM's. Most of these issues are kinda to be expected when a group of volunteers start getting demoralized and/or overworked. They remain an issue, though I have heard of a couple of things happening in game to address some of the communication ones.

I have to give major Kudo's to the Peace Corpse controllers and characters for trying to turn things around and get involved with the rest of the active characters, actively roleplaying in a way that makes them enjoyable to interact with. Letting little conflicts be localized, more natural conflict of interest situations, and single incident focused instead of dragging out for days/weeks. Those of us that are still around and at least half engaged with the game have noticed the effort, and it is appreciated. A few of us have also been making it a point to try and engage more with the members of the Peace Corpse, in more positive roleplaying situations.

The notes above are only what I've seen and experienced in game, or have heard from other players during OOC conversations (Or IC conversations based on OOC feelings/concerns), and are I'm afraid a bit bare of solutions. Getting any significant new player numbers would most likely require a completely new engine for the game, not just new content for the existing engine. The Unreal Engine has been suggested by one other player, due to its FPS base and licensing... though that would mean a LOT of work on the part of the Dev's, and would need people that could do the graphic art to volunteer their time (Since the money to hire those people kinda doesn't grow on tree's for this type of game).

If there are other reasons, or more in depth ones, that I've missed...or if you feel I'm completely off base, please speak up.

~Jan
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

@Arnaya

Very well spoken.. Indeed alot of points you spoke I do agree with.. Let's face it, we are all we have left and we all need to work together in order to fix what has been broken in this city.. With the lack of GM MT activity, and lack of email replies, etc etc... It is up to the in game players to re-write what this game is all about until things change.. It's up to the ones who are active in game day to day fighting to good fight to keep this thing alive who need to push this city towards new activity..

@Dina

Real life work is definitely a strainer, I work real life as well and I don't have alot of time to play the game everyday like I wish too, but I make an effort and dedication to play this game every chance I get, doesn't matter what i'm doing, I get in the game and we all work on things that need to be worked on.. Like right now, I might be on the forums typing this message up, but i'm in game, willing and hoping one of you players just log in the game and let's go work on something together. Even if the GMs aren't actively watching us at the moment, they have chat logs that they can scan through and see what we did to then give it a follow up.

On another note, Dina.. I am not opposed to working with your character and helping you with more activities than resuming a teaching only role. We just have to work things out in game.. We have spent countless hours in this game trying to achieve greatness and I know for a fact that we can do that.. All of us can have high spheres it's just.. Let's forge this game into being what it needs to be..

___
With that being said.. Just come in game and walk up to my character Lu Chaos, see if there is anything you are interested in that he can help you with, one thing that's mistaken about Lu Chaos is.. He is VERY persuadable, just have to say the right stuff. Let's bring our favorite game back to life with effort everyone. it's up to us.
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PKChrisChan
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by PKChrisChan »

Arnaya's post is spot on.
Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

Also.. One other point I would like to make is, the game enhancing in 3d mode or not, is not needed.. To be frank the graphics aren't what's holding us back. We have more than what we need here.. Just have to get the activities flowing. That'll definitely keep the players in game more often.
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SnowAngel
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by SnowAngel »

The other thing I might add to Arnaya's post would be the time that events do happen. It is hard for me to be there for things that start after 8 pm dst. I live in VA so that is 11pm for me. I get up at 5:30 every day for work. I'm getting old :D so when I stay up past midnight too many nights.. it makes the next day a LONG day for me!

I totally get that *big* events happen when the VOLUNTEERS are able to log in and play their toon to make things happen. But it still makes it hard for those of us who would like to be there more for stuff, or those of us who miss stuff , because of the time that it happens. So we are seen as apathetic or not wanting to be involved.. or if we have to suddenly log out because we did stay and its really late..

Everyone has different work schedules/life schedules/ game play schedules , etc and it will never all mesh up at one time. But for the player base to understand that what it appears to be, may not always be what it really is :)

I would also agree with Arnaya about PC. You guys are really doing a great job. Keep it up. I find Snow ending up in a room with PC more often than not and it has been much lighter and easier to interact, which has definitely enhanced the game for me, especially since there is rarely anyone around lately when I bring Snow in. So Kudos to PC.

Good post topic Lu.
~Sarah~
There are times when we stop.. We sit still... We listen and breezes from a whole other world begin to whisper.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Dina »

Thanks Lu, I just don't know what I even want to do. The houses don't appeal to me and the game is at the point where you really should be in a house to get cool arts and more activity. BUT this is how I see the houses. Don't take any offense to what I have to say ok? It is only my feelings when I go in game.

HC: It just isn't the same. This is why I hardly play Kailee. I don't want her to leave the house because she feels that is her place, however...it is horrible now. HC used to be a strong willed house back in the old days. You have Rulers that hardly show up. You only see one Ruler, two Guardians. However, be damned if a Ruler that is hardly ever around will hand over the crest to someone else and step down.

AoE: 2 or 3 active members, whenever Zenny dreams she never sees a member dreaming. Not that Zenny is around much anyway. Yet the house still stands.

PC: So many Rulers and Guardians that no one else could ever move up and Dina would never join, not with Lace as a Ruler again lol. Dina could deal with Lu before she deals with Lace again. Dina wants to punch Lace in the face. =X <3 Lacie

OoL: I wont even go there.

Dina is too stubborn to follow anymore. That is how I am in real life. I'm a leader, not a follower lol. She just stays freespirit and just teaches.
Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

Thank you, Snow Angel. I thought i'd definitely be good to shed some light on the issues so that we can all as a playerbase come to a conclusion and a fix for the problem..

Now there are some of us that dreams VERY VERY frequently.. If you find yourself dreaming early in the mornings, get together with other early morning players and see what you can all do for fun, see if you can get a GM that is able to get involved with you during your timeframe of dreaming.

I know that dreaming late can always be an issue and the 'peak' of dream time happens to be around 7 DST which would be 9 for you Snow Angel and you have to get rest soon, very understandable. A solution for that would be to just dream late when you can when you have a free day the next day. Also letting your peers know when that day would be will also help you out so that your friends and other people will know when you will be around. That will help with activity as well.

Once again thanks for your comments on this topic.
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SnowAngel
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by SnowAngel »

PS- 7 dst is 10pm for me :)
There are times when we stop.. We sit still... We listen and breezes from a whole other world begin to whisper.
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Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

@Dina

Well I can only speak on the PC side of things and make a comment on your comment towards Ruler and Guardian crested members.. Each member of the PC has roles and things that they bring apon themselves.. Those with the Ruler and Guardian crests have taken it apon themselves to give themselves more work and responsibility within the family/faction.. With that being said.. It is possible for ANYONE to gain Ruler or Guardian crests, but it is all about them and their drive and how much responsibility they want to have..

On another note on the crests.. My crest is equal to the initiate crest of a PC member, it's just since my rank is Captain, I have more responsibilities and other things I have to deal with. More pressure, etc.. The crests on PC members mean little to nothing other than you have more homework or you can just enjoy your dreams and help when needed basically. Captains literally clean up all the time, sacrifice things, keep the prime strength up to par. Have to sit there and forge things for everyone.. Lieutenants aka initiates, they can just chill and enjoy the fruits of those who want too have the extra responsibility to help everyone out. Ruler and Guardian means nothing in the PC, it's all about you and the amount of effort you put in on the process. Even if you were to join and just have an initiate crest.. Your word can still beat my word if you persuade everyone else on the best course of action.

Also with Lace being 'ruler' crested, it's because she gives herself more of the burden of things to do.. Trust me if she could be initiate she would be, but she has a greater burden than everyone else with the rank she was given so that just comes with it, but I say that Dina and Lace work things out to create a better future for yourself and the game, the more of us working together and being friends/family the better for the game.
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Uthanatos »

A year ago there was a pretty well defined line between the earlies who started their events around 5 and the late nighters who started theirs at 8ish. I dunno how many earlies are still around, but I know I'm hard pressed to finish my active support calls and be in game reliably before 8. I can sometimes squeeze out 7:30, but not normally.
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
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Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

Well, as a community we can always resort to creating another thread for gaining the times of everyones dreamtime, with a community this small I feel we should utilize the tools we have to increase the activity flow.
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Cianne
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Cianne »

Family, work, health issues, time.
These are what is keeping me from UL these days, and when I do have free time, I want to focus on something that
I find really super enjoyable and relaxing or spend it with my daughter, because that time is sooo rare and I'm not
getting any younger.

I've tried to not have my characters (you all know who they are :p ) give out quests right now so I don't stiff people or leave them hanging.

I come in when I can, and if someone REALLY needs something, everybody knows they can send a PM and I'll do my best to arrange a time. :)

Edit - p.s. Try not to get mad at a person or people because they don't play. We never know what other people have going on in their lives.
:)
~Practice patience and silent reflection in a moment of anger ~ It will save you infinite moments of regret~
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Tary »

I could probably post a multipage response to this. In fact this response may turn into one, but let me start first with my personal reasons:
  • Time zone considerations: I'm EST+7 and that means that pretty much any time I can play the game is nearly dead. Or deader.
  • My kids take up much of my time.
  • What my kids don't demand, my job demands.
  • What my job doesn't demand I try to dedicate to building to a 40 mpw base to gear up for marathon training.
  • I really owe it to the UL community to go back to coding for the community but see above.
That is: if I had free time to play (and, sure, I can cut out some TV watching time or running time or whatever) I'd prefer to give that time to coding for UL. So those are mmy personal reasons, but to be honest the reasons are even deeper than that. Because, like I said: if the game were truly enjoyable for me, I'd make sure to make the time for it.

Let me put it another way: the rare times I'll play and other people will be around, I'll go and seek them out. And I'll start trying to roleplay. And then at some point I'll just kind of get bored and tired of emoting things or playing my character or actually giving a F about the mares or Iden or KoES or Calenture or whatever. I think a big part of it is this: Underlight is a bad game. Let's really embrace that fact, because if we don't accept it we can't change it. Underlight is a terrible game because it's not really a game. The advancement system is half-baked at best, an ill-conceived idea that wasn't ever coded to completion and then built upon. It's like building a house with a half-dug foundation: sure, the house might stand, but it's gonna look like shit.

The other thing is the enforced roleplaying. Sigh. This is going to be contentious, but I have a really hard time forcing myself to pretend to give several craps about the state of the Lambent Flats or what-the-f-ever. Sometimes I just wanna log on to Underlight and talk about the latest episode of Designated Survivor while blading Emphants and just not care about whether or not it's a valid roleplay. And yeah, this goes so far as separation between alts as well. I don't have alts -- honest, I don't even have time to get past orbit 43 on Tary, so I doubt I'd have time to invest in an orbit 3 noob -- but is it such a big bloody deal if you do or don't separate between them? If your argument is predicated on roleplaying purity, well c.f. about how I don't care.

Honestly, the way to bring in a new community -- or to revive the community -- is to build structure to the game. To add systematic advancement, systematic politics, not the messy dungheap we have today that we call houses: but real consequence, systematically built into the code and core of the game, ways to open and close houses, ways to declare and win wars, ways to dynamically alter the environment. And we don't need pretty eye candy -- although the hooker boots and the garter belts help, yeah -- we just need solid gameplay fundamentals. Because here's the thing: gone are the days when we can count on players giving 6, 7, 12 hours of their time a day to this game. Those days are gone. You get 30-45 minutes if you're lucky, because if you don't reel me in my eyes will glaze over and I'll start playing 2048 on my phone.

The other thing that we need -- like yesterday -- is to port this shit to the browser. Pronto. Because forcing people into downloading ANYTHING, and not giving them the ability to start playing THIS VERY SECOND will push away the vast majority of folks.

Okay. Great. Rant over. If I'm saying all those things AND I'M A DEVELOPER, why don't I just shit or get off the pot? Well, if I had 2-3 months of down time where I could just code for Underlight along with the 3 or 4 other kickass developers working on Underlight right now I think we could hit a grand slam. But that's what we need. 3 months of no interruptions, no real work, no nothing except for 12 hours a day of code, code, code. Iterate and code. And we will never get that.

So I think we're just beating a dead horse, sadly. :\
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Erasmus »

So my two cents... and I get it, I just came back after ten years away, I didn't play during the SoT days, nor during the early re-release of the Lyra era client so maybe I'm not qualified to answer. But... maybe I am. Maybe BECAUSE when I returned it was already dead, maybe it gives me a unique perspective. This is going to be long, and may not be positive or well-received all the time, bear with me. So, here goes.

I love this game. It immerses me in D&Desque pen and paper format game with graphics and I love that. I spend far more time playing UL than practically any other game ever. But... now is not then.

Games evolve. Underlight hasn't. Sure, there have been minor tweaks here and there and some of them are great! I love that the xp curve has been reduced, as well as the time it takes for arts to improve. All great. The truth is, people expect to play to win. And even if advancement isn't your thing, you don't want to be able to walk into the game and someone walks up to you and emotes "Silly dreamer X spits on Erasmus and watches it drip down your face." And realistically there's nothing you can do but role play that you wipe it off and then attack them or come up with some kind of retort that the person doesn't even really have to accept or even acknowledge. And again, there's nothing that can really be done about it. But guess what? That's open-ended role play that is unique to this game. A double-edged sword.

So advancement... unless you dream during peak hours, it's brutal. Now, this isn't the fault of anyone specific, or even the game masters. My hat's off to them for the work they put in and the job they do, for free. That's dedication. Round of applause for it, truly and honestly. But unless you are a die-hard player, a true, dyed-in-the-wool ULer, this isn't the place for it. Let's break it down.

Bequeath costs the evoker twice what they grant. Right? Why? We're afraid of people advancing? They still have to task for spheres. Who is going to give up their hard-earned xp for half of their cost to someone?

Grant RP points can only be done once every 7 days and each point doesn't reward much. I'll be honest. I've seen the same 3 people every day for 7 days with only a few exceptions.

Tasking in general requires time which people have less of now because as everyone so far has mentioned, time is precious because of work, family, etc. A lot happens in 10 years. People that didn't have a family or jobs 10 years ago do now. I'm all for player involved teaching and advancement. It's unique. But it's limiting. I have to devote time that I could be socializing or role playing with someone else to my task-related role play which no one is obligated to take part in. Thus dragging out my task. I really am not a huge fan of the requirements that a task must involve a specific type of event or role play to occur. What if no one participates? What if you're ignored? There's not many people to even involve in it anymore. And of course there's always the availability of Teachers and GMs which again, I can't fault them for because they are volunteers, even Teachers volunteer to teach the player-base. What's the solution? I don't know. Make tasks easier? Maybe. But how easy? Can't just give away things.

Houses need players. They also can't just sit around happy and safe. One of the great thing about houses back in the day was the threat of wars and so on. Rulers had to be warmongers or diplomats. It meant something. Now Rulers and Guardians are mission board upkeep.

Forge Talisman is now useless from a talisman creation perspective. Sure, you could create some great items. But so what? What was the harm? You don't have to sit at a generator for hours waiting for them to spawn. You're going to get them anyway, why not make them? Now, don't mistake me for saying that Forgers shouldn't be creative. They should. But put an ID tag on a talisman like is on Inscribe that says the talisman was created by so and so. That way if someone gives away or drops a mundane item created with forge, they are violating the oath of a forger and we know who it is. But honestly, if someone hands me a cool item with a great description and the effect is increasing dreamsoul by 1-4 or Vision for 1-45 seconds. Wow. Thanks. (That's overly dramatic, because I'm appreciative of the effort by the forger, but the item isn't very useful. Why not just inscribe a codex with the cool inscription and such and not have Forge? Why not allow dreamers to Forge all talisman types? The fire and new things included. Because they lose their allure? Then make them require power tokens or make them require DreamSmith Mark or make them require being a Ruler or Master Teacher? But find some way to not require a GM for them. Just a thought.

New arts or designs of terrain or something. They don't have to be drastic. But when you've had the same arts for a decade, it gets old. I know there are newer ones, lie Chaos Well and Rally and honestly those are awesome. Not game changing either. But awesome. A teleport to Threshold from a house? Or anywhere for that matter. We need people to get to where the new players will be. But now we have to trudge back or wake and re-enter which is often viewed as OOC and hope that they are there when we get there. Quality of Life changes in arts such as the Mind Blank turning off with the second evoke are great. There could be other QOL changes, even small ones. What kind? Don't know. That's another post for another day.

OOC communication is a necessary evil. Make it so. Maybe like how there's the ability to whisper to someone and emote something there could be a whisper OOC option that puts Dreamer whispers to you OUT OF CHARACTER blah blah blah. People are going to do it. Small change but a quality of life change that would make it easier for a new player to differentiate it without making them an outcast or execute them for communicating improperly.

As my suggestion above about bringing people into Threshold with a teleport art or some other method, we have to figure out a way to be able to centralize dreamers more often than spread them apart. When people have to gen sit or go to Citadel for essence regen pads or whatever other task (tasking included) that spreads people apart may not always be the best option. Especially in low population times like these.

That's all for now. I'm sure there's more. But I want to say, again, I love the game. Always have, always will. I was so happy when I stumbled upon it. And maybe what I think is wrong, others won't. Maybe I'm off my rocker. Way off base. But it's my perspective after a very long hiatus and what I see today versus the way things were in the early days. Also, to reiterate, my thanks to the developers, the admins, the game masters, the teachers, and the players. Without any of you, it wouldn't work. A big thanks to Koi for bringing it back to life. Even in its current state it's still better than not having it at all.

So, all done. If you read this far, congratulations. I may not have read that much. But you must love the game enough, like me, to care to read people's opinions and suggestions.

B.
Tary
Dreamer
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:09 am

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Tary »

Erasmus wrote:Wall of text
While I don't disagree with what you said, I do disagree with some points. You say that we can't "just give things away." And I guess... why not? I mean, sure, in any game you have to earn your advancement, but does it have to be an open-ended advancement system wherein you depend upon other players? I'm not sure.

I'm also not sure -- and in fact I'm pretty sure it's not the case -- that we need new planes or arts or what-have-you. We've added them. Lots of them. It doesn't drum up any new business. Adding more floors onto a shaky foundation just makes the entire structure shakier at this point. I think we need to start thinking about things from the ground up. I know that open-endedness is great but that only works for certain types of games and Underlight can't be a pen-and-paper RPG. It's just not that. So instead why not embrace the fact that we're playing a computer game and make a well-defined political advancement system, a well-defined player advancement system, and don't put much ambiguity in it?

Of course, at that point you're not really playing Underlight anymore. You're playing some other game. And I think that's pretty much my point.
Dina

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Dina »

#TaryForPresident
Erasmus
Dreamer
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 am
Character Name(s): Erasmus

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Erasmus »

Tary wrote:
Erasmus wrote:Wall of text
While I don't disagree with what you said, I do disagree with some points. You say that we can't "just give things away." And I guess... why not? I mean, sure, in any game you have to earn your advancement, but does it have to be an open-ended advancement system wherein you depend upon other players? I'm not sure.

I'm also not sure -- and in fact I'm pretty sure it's not the case -- that we need new planes or arts or what-have-you. We've added them. Lots of them. It doesn't drum up any new business. Adding more floors onto a shaky foundation just makes the entire structure shakier at this point. I think we need to start thinking about things from the ground up. I know that open-endedness is great but that only works for certain types of games and Underlight can't be a pen-and-paper RPG. It's just not that. So instead why not embrace the fact that we're playing a computer game and make a well-defined political advancement system, a well-defined player advancement system, and don't put much ambiguity in it?

Of course, at that point you're not really playing Underlight anymore. You're playing some other game. And I think that's pretty much my point.

Absolutely. I was really just looking at options to work with what we have. Yes, it's dated and yes resources are hard to come by (read: people skilled and available to code and make the changes necessary), but it has to be easier than to rewrite it I'd think. But maybe a rewrite is what's necessary. I don't know.

As far as giving things away for free. I understand the reason for saying why not, but let's face it, with the way things work currently, if you don't require SOME form of interaction (whether that's a task from a teacher, Ruler or seomthing similar, what's in place to inspire role play or even interaction with someone else? On the flip-side, everyone plays for different reasons and some people just play to get everything maxed and they shouldn't be forced to interact to do it. I get that, but that's Underlight. A major foundation of it, at least. Take things like that away and you're right, might as well start from scratch.

I don't know the answer.
Lu Chaos
Dreamer
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:44 am
Character Name(s): Lu Chaos

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

@Tary

Well i do agree the teaching system is outdated. We need to be able to reward arts when we dem them necessary. Gain spheres like the daymares do. And at 9th orbit then we should be able to focus on accomplishing roleplay goals together or while we chase the final orbit. The win war thing, i mean sure it sounds good but with the minor amount of players. Wars aren't needed.
To be quite Frank.. We need more participation from the Elders, whether they be enemy or friend. That will go a long way to the acitivity.

@Erasmus
I agree with some of the things you said AS well. Teleport from house to threshold is being worked on in game right now. Alot of other tweaks are being worked on but the Main issue i find is the lack of things to do. Simply put the volunteers aka GMs have put the game in our Hand and to be Frank, we dont hsve enough playerbase to do anything. We need the GMs to step it up big time.
Erasmus
Dreamer
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 am
Character Name(s): Erasmus

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Erasmus »

@Lu

That's good to hear, that arts and other things are being worked on in the game. And here's something that could help the idea that elders aren't around to help perpetuate or facilitate roleplays:

If player teachers were truly capable of advancement in an expeditious enough manner to matter, elders wouldn't have to be around only to teach. They could be around specifically for role play enhancement. Win-win.

It'd be great if gms weren't needed at all for teaching and only needed for storyline and role play support.

We just have to let go of the idea that power has to be held in gm hands.

Anyways.
Pheasant
Dreamer
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:24 am

Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Pheasant »

1)I have been sick on and off for maybe three months now and cant seem to shake it.
2)Planning for my upcoming wedding takes up most of my free time.
3)I have a parrot who consumes a lot of my early morning/afternoon as well and likes to try and eat the keys off my laptop, so I avoid using my laptop when he's out and about.
DONE
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