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So what's really going on?

Want to talk about non-game related issues? This is the forum for it.
Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

Glad everyone is chiming in on this post. The point of this post is to let everyone know that yes we have our life problems, but you are needed if you can make it. And I look forward to seeing you all again.
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Voxaroth
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Voxaroth »

I check in from time to time to see how the game is doing, and if it's at a place where I'd consider coming back. I figured I'd post my thoughts.

Roleplaying is the ultimate goal of the game, and it's held up by three pillars. One pillar is narrative depth, one pillar is active population, and one pillar is conflict. If one pillar fails, the other two crumble with it. They're intertwined. If active population is rapidly declining, it means that one or more of the other two pillars is out of whack.

Narrative depth is the game's backstory, current story arc, and player's contributions. From my time in the game, it seemed like the managing team did a great job furthering the game's backstory, adding new intrigue and plots, and allowing players to insert themselves into the fold. While it is crumbling because of lack of players, I personally doubt it was ever the problem.

Conflict is the pillar that I think was broken since the end of the Lyra days. And it's important to recognize what conflict is in Underlight. Conflict is combat. Yes, it's also the roleplaying that comes along with combat as well, but without the threats or consequences of combat the roleplaying becomes disingenuous. We covet items, improve our arts, gain orbits and spheres, and drive conflict through the combat mechanics of the game. Sometimes we don't even need to be able to use what we have, but it's simply having it that creates posturing and excitement.

Combat is broke AF.

Let me make clear that I'm not suggesting that the game will ever become a rock-solid FPS. It's limited by what it is, and everyone understands that. But there are plenty of self-imposed problems with it that there are no excuses for.

To understand these avoidable problems, I first need to explain the Prisoner's Dilemma. Very quickly put, the Prisoner's Dilemma states that if a person has to choose between self sacrifice for the benefit of the general population, or self benefit at the detriment of everyone else, MOST people will choose to benefit themselves. Even if in the long run it makes things worse for them when it all adds up.

This appears in the game in the form of "I deserve this because I invested the time into it, and I don't want anyone else to have it without having to do the same". It's reflected in the advancement system. It's reflected in refusing to ease the skill-cap on combat because people took the time to become skilled fighters. It's apparent in the attitude of the players who simply give up trying to participate in combat because there is no point whatsoever. And with so few people in the game now, there's no room for any player to feel like they can't contribute!

Balance promotes combat, combat promotes conflict, and conflict promotes Roleplaying. If, in such a small population there are dual focused players at eighth sphere running around with fifth sphere players, there will be no conflict that isn't forced (and forced conflict ISN'T fun).

Set everyone to the same sphere, and cap it off. Only story-driven characters need to be higher. Give everyone all the tools in their tool kits and let them use them to contribute (get rid of teaching entirely, it doesn't work at this population level!). Get rid of item genning, font sitting, shield swapping, charge managing.... and just give people a button to push to shoot and their arts. The better fighters will still be good, but at least someone won't be dead to rights because they didn't invest years in item management practice.

The idea that people who invest more time should have more power will cause a continual decline. They will always invest more time, and always be more powerful. The strong get stronger, and the weak are told that it's their fault for not putting in the same level of dedication. Those people leave, and the game declines (and lets face it, Underlight shouldn't be looking to add a huge player base, it should be just trying not to lose whoever's left).

But what we have now, and have had for a long time, is a completely uneven playing-field. Combat is broken, so people don't do it. Either it drives them away, or the lack of good, conflicted roleplaying does.

I left because I knew I'd never be on the same level. I didn't join in for combat because all it meant was that I'd be even FURTHER behind where I was, and I was already not a contributing factor. Conflict died for me when the threat and consequences of combat died for me. And my interest in roleplaying died shorty there-after.

Rinse and repeat for a great deal of people, I suspect. It's a game, after all.
Uthanatos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Uthanatos »

Yay talblets, power went down with the storm, utility company says they'll be sending out crews, "when the weather clears".....soooo tomorrow afternoon/evening?
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
― Jim Butcher, Cold Days
Lu Chaos
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Lu Chaos »

@Voxaroth

To be quite honest, I kind of agree that if EVERYONE of us was strong as shit, it'd make for interesting roleplay, people wouldn't be afraid to get on the battlefield, etc etc, it would make it quite the game.. Then it would all boil down to pure skills, not how many chakrams you have, but skills. None the less... It would still have issues.. Some of use can't fight or won't fight, or just don't want to take the time TOO fight. You know? Conflict does bring about roleplay, but not alot of conflict with each other is good conflict. We all need common enemies, at all times in this game too keep everything going good, to keep the interest levels up. That's just my take on what you said. We all jsut need common enemies at the moment, the teaching thing, I like it, adds a little variety to the game, and the current sphere thing.. Meh.. If it were to change, it'll probably get boring because we'd have nothing else to strive for, only just roleplaying and shooting chakrams at enemies. That's what would happen in a city full of 9th spheres.. UNLESS we can have common enemies at all times, then it'd been fun as hell.
Leolus
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Leolus »

Log in, look at the time required to do pretty much anything, log out. I don't have a "fix it" suggestion. Every once in a while I get the urge to play then I remember I'll be sitting around for 90% of my time hitting sense dreamers or praying the person I need to talk to shows up. Everything that doesn't involve other dreamers can't engage me long enough to wait on the other people, basically.
~Restel
~Bane
Hammen
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Hammen »

Leolus wrote:Log in, look at the time required to do pretty much anything, log out. I don't have a "fix it" suggestion. Every once in a while I get the urge to play then I remember I'll be sitting around for 90% of my time hitting sense dreamers or praying the person I need to talk to shows up. Everything that doesn't involve other dreamers can't engage me long enough to wait on the other people, basically.
I know how you feel. It's the same reasons I can't get my buddies to start playing. But here's what keeps me playing...

I log in...see nobody is around...I stick around and start brainstorming. What am I going to do? What do I want to accomplish? Then, when others enter the game, they see others playing so they are more apt to stay. There are times when a group is gathered and nobody seems to be engaging in any roleplaying. That's when people start to exit and start playing other games that are immediately immersive in content. So I have started pushing content, agenda, and roleplaying heavily. Keep people engaged in conversation and make their characters part of the action/conversation. Most times what ends up happening are the really brilliant role players get motivated and start teeing off. That's when the best UL experiences come where hours pass by in what feels like only minutes.

However there is only one Grand problem...life happens. If people who are key to a particular roleplay don't dream or can't dream, it can cause a bit of stalemate in character development. If you've ever played D&D in a large group setting, even a couple not showing up can be devastating to the rest of people's playing experience.

The way I see it, in order to get a good playing experience, people need to be online and engaged. UL doesn't have 1.) the NPCs to assist with character development and questing (like nearly all other MMOs) for when none else are around to play with 2.) they don't have a paid staff since it is free to play and therefore don't have dedicated people online at all times to push content (though the volunteers who do GM the events in game when they do are amazing) 3.). It doesn't have close to a large population. It's a very small community. Therefore until that changes, we will need to engage with one another cross faction as well as within in order to prevent stale playing experience. Even if community grows to a large populace, the current development system of waiting on one teacher to play, be free and willing, and without anyone whom can honor the quest for them, is going to hinder us forever. That will need to be addressed and I've made a separate post about that already.

All we have is each other (in game of course). So let's be mindful of that, ok? Your character doesn't have to comply with everything but even a character watching and commenting to the contrary is a vital part of the roleplay experience. Engage it...engage one another. Let's keep giving developers ideas for improvement but also let's continue to have fun!

H
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Calabosh
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Calabosh »

Yeah Voxaroth pretty much summed up how I feel about the UL experience right now too.
Slayer of beasts, breaker of rules, follower of none
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CONMAN
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by CONMAN »

Leolus wrote:Log in, look at the time required to do pretty much anything, log out. I don't have a "fix it" suggestion. Every once in a while I get the urge to play then I remember I'll be sitting around for 90% of my time hitting sense dreamers or praying the person I need to talk to shows up. Everything that doesn't involve other dreamers can't engage me long enough to wait on the other people, basically.

BANE!!
Leolus
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Re: So what's really going on?

Post by Leolus »

CONMAN wrote:BANE!!
Hey now, leave one alone.
~Restel
~Bane
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