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Historic Echoes

Want to talk about non-game related issues? This is the forum for it.
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Tary
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Historic Echoes

Post by Tary »

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.
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Arnaya
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Re: Historic Echoes

Post by Arnaya »

Very, Very valid and relevant quotes Tary
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
Wolfgar
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Re: Historic Echoes

Post by Wolfgar »

While I agree it is important to understand history as a means of insuring we do not repeat negative aspects of it...

This ban is 90 days in duration from seven countries the former administration labeled terrorist hotbeds, with the purpose of restructuring our immigration system to insure the safety of our nation to the best of our ability. There is nothing in the order that states "muslim", and from what I have read there are non muslims being blocked in almost equal numbers at this point. On top of this, the court system has the ability and authority to over ride the executive order, and again, from what I have seen it is in process. Within the order itself there is a means for the secretaries of State and Homeland Security to over ride the order on a case by case basis as well.

This is hardly Nazi Germany.

It is unfortunately the work of someone unfamiliar with the political system who is pushing to fulfill promises made on the campaign trail, and in my opinion alone not handling certain aspects in the best way. As with virtually all elections of my adult life, our country is split in half, so therefor every action taken by a President will be greeted with angst from half the country. Changes needed to be made to our immigration system, so instead of encouraging illegal immigration it fosters a streamlined approach for people who legitimately want to become American, just as my ancestors and virtually all American's ancestors did. We cannot survive and prosper without immigration, but illegal immigration does nothing positive for our country or for the people trapped outside the system. If nothing else this executive order will force the nation to deal with a real problem, versus endlessly debating and looking for the perfect solution. Again, I, nor anyone I personally know wants to see people suffer needlessly, nor to see good people turned away and sent back to their own countries which are filled with war and hatred. Now is the time to come together on a solution, which will not be perfect, will not be universally well liked, but can ease the suffering of those in need and address the threats to our nation and way of life at the same time.

What once passed for news in this country has become entertainment, so now it is about making headlines versus reporting the actual facts in a non biased fashion.

--Thomas aka Wolfgar
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Arnaya
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Re: Historic Echoes

Post by Arnaya »

I wasn't just referring to the USA with my comment Thomas, I live in Canada personally... so, while I don't like a lot of what I see and hear of Trump doing (Personally, I have some pretty strong opinions about the nature of his character), and I do think that he's putting up a lot of dangerous precedents... Tary's quotes can apply to a lot of the world right now from what i've been seeing on the news feeds I follow. The USA is one of those that the quotes apply to (Executive orders, as seen from Obama and other previous presidents, are something to be used carefully. I havn't done any research on it, but the number signed in the first week so far is a little disturbing to me anyway), but its not the only country or region of the world that would do well to remember those quotes :)
~Jan
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
Uthanatos
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Re: Historic Echoes

Post by Uthanatos »

I'll set my personal opinions on the leadership aside for a moment. The US teeters on the precipice of failure. Not because of some grand foe we cannot match, but because as a country, we have lost heart. We have come to care more about the trappings of wealth than the well being of our neighbors. We do not have a sense of national pride. Those who are proudest of being American, are those who have struggled and fought every step of the way through a bureaucratic nightmare to become American. We, as a country, do not take pride in our work, it is a means to an end. We, as a country, do not gain glory from national achievements. In short, what MADE America great, was the heart of the people and that heart has become so withered that I'd be hard pressed to point out anything that we, as a country, DO take pride in. We have allowed the very differences that made us what we are, to draw lines in the sand. We have solidified ourselves in our neat little boxes with no desire to see the outside world. We need to change.

Now, for a more personal note. I wholeheartedly disagree with many of Trumps views. Even moreso I find myself bewildered and appalled at his character. This being said, perhaps he is exactly the president the U.S. needs. A leader so unimaginably fucked in the head that it will shake the people loose from their self indulgent reveries that they might see the world for what it is. I leave you with a quote from, in my opinion, the most impactful President of the United States of America, "There are times when you have to make a choice, to do what is good, or what is right. I always chose what is right." -Ronald Reagan
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
― Jim Butcher, Cold Days
Tary
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Re: Historic Echoes

Post by Tary »

Wolfgar wrote: This is hardly Nazi Germany.
I keep hearing that. I didn't say this is Nazi Germany. Not yet. But let's be clear: Nazi Germany didn't happen overnight. It wasn't 1933 and then boom: Auschwitz. There was a lot of time in between the rise in power of the NSDP, their protectionist agenda, the burning down of the Reichstag and the rise of the Aryan nation. It wasn't something that happened overnight.

It happens in drips and drabs. Today it is refugees, or people holding green cards that are from suspicious places. Tomorrow it is people who became citizens in the past 5, 10, 15, 20 years from those places. Next year it is something else.
If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will of course frantically try to clamber out. But if you place it gently in a pot of tepid water and turn the heat on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up, the frog will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly like one of us in a hot bath, and before long, with a smile on its face, it will unresistingly allow itself to be boiled to death.
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