What to do about limited play time?

[Ghazgkull]

Coming back to Underlight, I'm wrestling with an issue that I bet others are facing as well. That is: How much time can I spend playing the game and how should I use that time?

When I played Lyra UL, I was a college student and could play all the time. Now, like many of you, I have a career and a family. I have a social circle and hobbies that get me out of the house. Playing time is hard to come by. (Folks may have seen me online a lot during the day, but that's because I'm exiting my current job. That completely ends next week when I join a startup.)

So far I've been trying to just play my character like I used to, even though I have limited hours. I took the DS Mark to teach forge and I was planning to go after MT status again. But the other day, I hit a roadblock - a GM declined to task my character for a plateau because Ghaz hasn't Trained enough other characters. I can see how this might be a reasonable request, but it highlighted the problem for me: I don't have time to put in a lot of work supporting the teaching system. (Besides that, my playstyle with Ghazgkull has never been to stand around in Threshold chatting.) By taking on the DS Mark and talking about the MT halo, I can see how I've signaled that I'm going to be part of the volunteer workforce that powers the teaching system. But really, that's not the case.

So finally the question... For those who can only play this game with limited hours, what should we do? Should we avoid positions of responsibility in favor of people who can play 10-20 hours a week? Or is there something we can do to make it work? Right now I'm thinking I should probably turn in the DS Mark and forget about MT status. Then maybe I'll be able to play the game in a way that works for me - just pop in when I can to roleplay and do tasks (assuming I can get them).

I'm even wondering whether I should give tasks anymore. I've always been a "quality over quantity" kind of tasker, but I feel like that's out the window now with A) the requirement of quantity in order to regain Sphere, B) the requirement of quantity in order to get tasks for my own character, and C) the restriction that other people aren't allowed to honor my character's tasks anymore (meaning students have to find me again to get their reward).

Sorry about the long rant, but I've been thinking about this kind of thing ever since I heard the game was coming back and it's just now starting to come to a head. Are other people struggling with this? What are your thoughts?

- Jared

[Celelond]

I honestly think that is you are unable to allocate the time, then do not take on the role.

I am actually glad you brought this up, as I have heard allot of ooc fuming about people being made to work for things we had before or trying to rush/fast track.

I think it is a good way to find out if the player will have the time to dedicate to the role.

If you are unable to give the time needed to the role, then when you have time, you can focus that all on rp.

[Fistandantilis]

Require that members of the City Guard plat or train their combat arts with you (the ones you can train) as part of their "combat training". You can be readily available to them while maintain some exclusivity. This could also be instated at a House level to varying degrees.

If you just don't have the time, you don't have the time.

Just a thought.

[Sidious]

+1 Jared.

So very much this. I was hoping that with a new team, a more understanding team, some of this work mentality would go away. Even players start thinking you should 'work' for it. Many of us aren't in the position we used to be. Many of us have so many other things that started to occupy our time in the intervening 10 years.

We make time to play, sure, but we don't make time to work while we play. Who out there really thinks this playerbase is one that is about cheating the system and taking advantage? Who thinks a guy like Jared here is like that?

Some folks just like the idea of the teaching system and want to be a part of it. I do. Can I? No. I don't have time to work for gm's to 'earn' it. Jared doesn't have enough time to get out the requisite quests, but are his quests good? Probably, I don't train from him. Is he a valuable part of the teaching system? You know it.

Even if you don't have time to be around all the time, you can still be a part of the system if you want to, if they let you. It's horseshit to say you can't. Easy enough, just make sure you talk to the student ahead of time to tell them when you will be around next, and possibly the time after that, and if they can make it, write the task, if not, have them go to someone else.

I really really dislike working in a game. We already have the grind that other games have, and we have to get through the teaching system. Why are you wanting to make it harder for these guys to help your game?

[Fistandantilis]

what drew me to this game was the sense of accomplishment from playing hard and getting spheres, new arts ect. If we are getting away from the "working" portion of the game, we are changing the nature of it. Which is fine if that's what everyone wants. But all facets of this game involve some kind of work and time investment, some more than others. Im in no way saying Jared isn't doing enough, I think he's a great player and probably a great teacher.

[Ghazgkull]

When I mentioned the story of not being able to get a task because of not putting enough work into the teaching system, I was really just trying to give an example of a situation that called this issue into focus. The issue of not having nearly as much time to put into the game as I (we?) used to be able to... and the question of how to manage it.

[Starfall]

The house opening RP sucked up more time than teaching ever could for me. The competition for fragments, the need to monitor them against theft, and simultaneously be available for recruiting made for a recipe for a time vacuum under everyone's control but mine. It was amazingly fun at first, but I am so glad it's over.

But with teaching, I can say no to a student when I'm exhausted, or just won't be around long enough, or can't focus enough on them to hear the report. It's much more under control. So the requirements to regain Sphere never felt insurmountable or like a demand for extra work to me, they were just a thing that would happen when it happened. Unlike the houses, there's no prize for being first to regain it or penalty for being last. The team has been hinting all along that upper limits and quotas on the number of teachers/MTs/smiths/etc... aren't how they want to operate, so it won't be a matter of needing to be first-or-not-at-all like before (and someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't want to take anyone's opportunity away by making anything harder. I like that the GM teachers have made it clear that tasks don't have to be difficult for the sake of difficulty. That idea came into fashion in old UL shortly after I hit 5th and I watched everyone coming up behind me suddenly struggle far harder than I needed to because folks wanted to preserve the hierarchy of seniority. I ran smack into that wall myself with Train plateaus and Forge. I don't ever want to see that again. I want to see anyone who is enthusiastic about a role be able to occupy it, not just those of us who always have before. I want to see people who are up to the task but never got the chance to be an MT or a Smith before due to artificial caps on number get that chance. Especially if they're of a different mindset than the rest of us.

That means that those whose time is limited aren't shouldering the burden of the whole system, and won't necessarily have to step aside or step down.

I do think it's not for everyone because there are responsibilities and expectations that come with it. I don't think it's too much to ask that if a newly walks in and there's teachers goofing around that at least one of them stops to introduce themselves. I understand that the usual intro RP for newlies can take around an hour depending upon typing speed, and that may not be something you can offer at that moment. But at least acknowledging their presence and pointing them the right way can be helpful.

(Kind of an aside, but I'm not down for gossip about who is a "bad teacher" because their tasks are too easy, and I really don't want to hear more insinuations that sex is the only reason someone has a halo, IC or OOC. Both have happened already. The role isn't so complicated that only geniuses with infinite time can do well at it. Someone not being well-known as an excellent teacher doesn't mean they're doing it poorly or that it is undeserved. When was the last time some of us needed the help of someone whose train is only 19? How many actually have had experience working with someone who is denigrated as a "bad teacher?" Do their students think they are or is that just judgment from on high?)

Ok, so my thoughts for managing things:
- Scheduling times when students can find you if they haven't reached you before then.
- Concrete goal tasks, stuff that doesn't take a lot of time to report because they've either done it or haven't
- Tasks that delegate responsibility for something you need done to free up your time
- Sub-tasking, where a difficult project is broken into bite-size chunks the student can do one at a time (for instance, someone's whole task from me was to make a plan with specific objectives for a major undertaking, NOT to go do the thing itself just yet)
- Know other teachers' train levels and delegate lower plateaus to teachers who can only plateau that high (I know this doesn't help with the Sphere regaining)
- And if all else fails, let someone else take the lead, but be there to support them with the high level arts.

[Sidious]

Yeah, Starfall described what I was talking about better than I did. It was that mentality that crept into Lyra UL and I thought it sucked, I don't want that to happen here. Teachers are providers of entertainment, not work, yeah?

Also, I think managing it is easy, and I mentioned it and so did Starfall. Problem is it's just going to take longer for us people that don't have that kinda time to get through the GM requirements for certain things.

I would hate to see a good teacher like Jared shut off his halo because he can only teach a couple times a week.

[Ghazgkull]

Require that members of the City Guard plat or train their combat arts with you (the ones you can train) as part of their "combat training". You can be readily available to them while maintain some exclusivity. This could also be instated at a House level to varying degrees.

If you just don't have the time, you don't have the time.

Btw, I'm trying this out now. Giving out quests that more directly help me do the things that I would RP myself if I had the time. It's different from my normal style of giving people tasks that push their own RPs. We'll see how it works out.

[Koi-Alastar]

From our perspective, we need requirements like "10 tasks" as that takes out any possibility for favoritism or preferential treatment on our part. We aren't subjectively judging Jim's tasks as "not good enough", just that he hasn't done enough tasks yet. Maybe that means he will not get Sphere today, but 10 is such an intensely low number that he WILL have it, unless he literally stops tasking altogether. Also, 10 tasks for Sphere has already been lowered to 8 OR you can turn in 8 'example sphere tasks'.

As per not getting a plateau of an Art because you hadn't tasked enough people yet, I'm not sure what you're referring to there. As far as I know, I nor the other GM MTs have turned down anyone for not tasking enough, unless they are seeking a Train plateau a few days after getting one. Accommodating is one thing; going from Train 10 to Train 50 in a week due to Curse train evokes is another.

If you can't dream as much as you used to or as much as Sue, that's fine. It's not going to prevent you from progressing, it's simply going to mean it takes longer. Do we really think it's fair that Greg who does 1 task a month and dreams 2 hours a week progresses as quickly and as high as Sue who's busting out 10 tasks a week and basically lives online? Greg should be able to advance, absolutely, but Sue should be able to advance faster. Deciding that if it doesn't come fast enough or as fast as others, it's not worth doing at all...that's a decision the player has to make, but I hope it isn't one they go through with.

We are three weeks in, people already have Sphere and DreamSmith Mark back, and an enormous number of Teachers have completed Train plateaus. Does every single person have every single Art they used to? No. I don't think that's a bad thing. There have been many 'issues' related to Teaching already, and they would have been worse if everyone had Sphere and Train Self at orbit. Be patient. I do not feel anyone would be able to legitmately claim our current Teaching System is 'hard' or 'repressing' in any way.

[Koi-Alastar]

^TL;DR....no one is being prevented from progressing due to lack of tasks or hours played. They simply haven't gotten as many things back in the first 3 weeks. Everyone has the opportunity to progress, those who play more will progress faster.

Ghazgkull: I'm not sure what plateau you're referring to. Unless it was specifically what I addressed before, you're welcome to seek out Kanto in-game. GK to 50 isn't dependent on how many tasks you give out.

[Ghazgkull]

Ghazgkull: I'm not sure what plateau you're referring to. Unless it was specifically what I addressed before, you're welcome to seek out Kanto in-game. GK to 50 isn't dependent on how many tasks you give out.

Thanks for the reply and the follow-up in game. In order to keep this thread on the topic of "How should we play this game with limited play time?", I'll PM you the particular GM conversation you're interested in.

[Sidious]

Digging the transparency of koi, keep it up guys

[Gerroz]

-

- Tasks that delegate responsibility for something you need done to free up your time
-Sub-tasking, where a difficult project is broken into bite-size chunks the student can do one at a time (for instance, someone's whole task from me was to make a plan with specific objectives for a major undertaking, NOT to go do the thing itself just yet)
- Know other teachers' train levels and delegate lower plateaus to teachers who can only plateau that high (I know this doesn't help with the Sphere regaining)

This, is how I free up time for myself.


On a side note, the advancement has speeded up a LOT in this version already, and I'm of the opinion that there's quite a few tasks that are actually too easy. I hate busy work myself, I usually make tasks with real goals and meaning, either to my own character, its house or the student's agenda. However, there are those in the game who's been getting many high level plateaus already, within just three weeks, and that is very fast idneed. Some just show a huge lust for speedy advancement and whine if they have to actually do something to gain it.