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less elder involvement

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Gerroz
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less elder involvement

Post by Gerroz »

First, let me start by saying that you Kois have done well by having more GM involvement that I'be seen in any version of Underlight. It shows your dedication for sure. However, I actually hope that you plan to tone down the teaching elders gradually from now on. My reasoning is this:

It used to be a big pull to the houses that it gives access to high level teachers. Join a house and you might enjoy further advancement than you otherwise would. Now there's so many teaching elders that house teachers are losing their significance. You can now get tasks from elders for almost all your major arts at once. This also almost makes so train self has no real purpose. Who wants to track down every single teacher of their focus first once to get a task from each of them, do them all, and then find them again to report, when they can just find a single elder and do one task instead?

In addition, even mentoring for halos has been taken over by elders, a part of the teaching system which is very enjoyable for regular players.


I hope that most of this will be handed over to the players in near future. Train self is able to carry the whole teaching structure if it is allowed to do so, but it requires there to be less GM teaching in the game. This also frees up GM time from teaching, allowing for more actual role play support instead
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Braelynn
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Braelynn »

I think I have to agree with Gerroz.

There are a lot of players right now, high sphered/train players that the teaching -should- be in the players' hands, at least once teachers in this version are established.

I feel like an Elder teaching should be a rare and unique thing. We should wait with baited breath for an Elder, they shouldn't be "old hat". Leave advancement to the players, that way like Gerroz said, it frees the GMs up to advance the storyline and do other roleplaying things with the players instead of everyone standing around in the Library tasking from an Elder who visits twice daily.

This is just my opinion though.
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Celelond
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Celelond »

Actually, my experience is the opposite.

I have watched Aaronyes turn down all tasks that I was there to hear when he knew there where teacher(s) about who could task for that art/plat.

He even gave the names of teacher about that could task for what was wanted.

If you have an issue with a particular Master(s), just email Koi, as far as I know, they are not supposed to task for arts/plats that are available from dreamer teachers about.

The only exception to this is if an apprentice it under them, then the apprentice may task.
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Koi-Drama
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Koi-Drama »

Thank you all for your input. We do appreciate the feedback from our players as we move forward to bring you a great experience in Underlight: Clash of Dreams.

I'll put some things into perspective as I address your concerns. The long term plan of the Koi Team is to put the game in the player's hands and allow them to create a truly dynamic and evolving environment where they become the focal point of Underlight.

The first part of this phase is visible with the houses/factions. We decided that we would keep GM involvement in factions to a minimum, that is, no guides, teachers, or other GM characters will be exclusively tied to a faction.

The next phase of this plan is the Teaching System. The Elders are capable of handling any advancement issue but we are working to actively restore the system back to the players. This phase will not be accomplished in a day, a week, or even a month, but we hope it will be accomplished in the time-frame we have in mind.

Master Teachers, Apprenticeships, Sphere, Train Advancement are all issues we are dealing with in-game. The Elders are working as a team to transition this system over to the players while we iron out a lot of discrepancies. Elder participation will lessen once we feel comfortable with the players ability to oversee themselves.

However, do not fear! With less participation from the Elders does not mean the quality of service from our team will diminish. We will continue to work behind the scenes to bring you the best roleplaying experience out there possible from any online game.

As always, if you have any ideas, suggestions, or issues concerning In-Game roleplay, and would like to tell the Koi Team, please email us at roleplaying@koiware.com
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Koi-Alastar »

I believe Drama summed up our intentions very well.

I do want to echo the fact that Elder Teachers generally shy from giving tasks if we know there are players who can handle the request.

Apprentices have not been taken over by Elders, however. Only those who were in-progress for an Apprenticeship were assigned an Elder MT, in order to honor their prior progression in the teaching system. There is no intention for Elder MTs to control new Apprentices, but rather the opposite.

It is my sincere desire to log into Kanto and have not a single person need a task or report from him because the players are self-sustaining. We hear you and are on the same page, but it will take more than a few weeks!
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Gerroz
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Gerroz »

Your move to not include seneschals or any type of house guide is very welcome in my eyes. I really hated seneschals, cause it felt like you had a babysitter watching your every move. The houses are completely in the control of players now and it is good. I am however concerned that players may not be able to drive conflict enough when it is 100% in their hands. We shall see.


Glad to hear your thoughts on teaching are in line with what I am thinking as well :)
Ghazgkull
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Ghazgkull »

Gerroz wrote:Your move to not include seneschals or any type of house guide is very welcome in my eyes. ...
+1
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Starfall
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Starfall »

I would like to see the Seneschal crest recycled into player hands, though not with the all-encompassing power over house affairs (By this I mean, they'd just be equal to ruler for house functions). Allow a player character to embody the soul of the house, or however each house wants to spin the role.
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Gerroz
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Gerroz »

Interesting idea Starfall. Sort of like a Matriarch. The spiritual soul of the house, yes, I like it.
Sidas
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Sidas »

Starting off, please don't take this the wrong way.

Some of the GM events lately seem to completely lack planning on the part of the GM team/driver. This really shines through to the player base and makes for some moments of frustration and leads to roleplays being ignored. Simple things like continuity amongst the GM Characters and following the basic rules of the Game (Threshold being a safe-zone, for one) will go a long way to keeping the player base attentive.

It would also be helpful to cut back on what's happening in a single day. GM events should be events. We shouldn't be going from Mare attack to a long teacher meeting to a strange Holow roleplay. That's all rushed and gives no time for us to get "excited" for the next event.
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Clarity
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Re: less elder involvement

Post by Clarity »

Sidas wrote:Starting off, please don't take this the wrong way.

Some of the GM events lately seem to completely lack planning on the part of the GM team/driver. This really shines through to the player base and makes for some moments of frustration and leads to roleplays being ignored. Simple things like continuity amongst the GM Characters and following the basic rules of the Game (Threshold being a safe-zone, for one) will go a long way to keeping the player base attentive.

It would also be helpful to cut back on what's happening in a single day. GM events should be events. We shouldn't be going from Mare attack to a long teacher meeting to a strange Holow roleplay. That's all rushed and gives no time for us to get "excited" for the next event.
I'm with this. There is a whole lot of things going on all at once. And while that's really fun, it's also really frustrating. While I'm all for gm involvement in..well, lots of things.. ya'll are going to burn yourselves out quickly, and us as well, if you don't give yourselves a chance to breath.

We don't need a gm event every night, just as we don't need GM teachers every night. Space it out a bit. Having GM teachers on at the same time we're fighting off darkmares is going to take it's toll. We're still really small, so having a, say, mare attack should be something we're all involved in to one degree or another. Yet due to the current pacing only a very small handful of folks are encountering each thing, because we're all spread to thin.

Though I am highly enjoying that it seems each of the separate houses are dealing with an internal issue, it also makes joining forces to combat a single thing that much more difficult. Not to mention that it also leaves those few folks who don't wish their characters to have a house at all a bit out in the cold. Though that, specifically, is more up to the player base to include folks.

All in all, it's OKAY for us to have a quiet night now and again. To let the players work on some of the issues that are plaguing their situation. Nothing will get done if every time there's a darkmare attack or a large gm involved roleplay going on, and half the folks have to run to threshold to sit around waiting to turn in tasks. Sure there should be occasions where we have to pause and decide if our x sphere/art task is more important overall then the current situation playing out in front of them, but it really shouldn't be EVERY time.

Especially since we've got am excellent group of folks actively playing the bad guys, so to speak. That in itself is a fantastic story-driver all on it's own.
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