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Fun Fun Fun

This out of character forum is for discussion of roleplaying, how to roleplay and roleplay coordination.
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kendo
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Fun Fun Fun

Post by kendo »

It's like this.

A group of like minded dreamers get a house reopened, its in a very fragile state.
Zaxun is introduced, here's the first mistake, besides the timing, zaxun is so polarizing that everyone stands against him .

A potential way around this is to have him espouse the beliefs of one of the most active houses or use some sort of actual incentive so that the opposing sides are somewhat even. How NOT to handle it is to have the fledgling new house support him... oh wait they don't, just half of them do at first. So this new house is not only divided in half, but they have to face the rest of the city alone. So you say "well we let them do as they please here, let the chips fall where they may " So this little divided house, who's incentive btw is quality roleplay only. Perhaps some tasks zaxun can give but aren't at all useful to the lower housemates, in fact these tasks are to collect essences that further alienate said divided house..

Whats the incentive of the vast percentage of the houses on the other side? well because they're such quality roleplayers they'll make their own. Even so much as to go up to the new houses facade and start a fight and then declare war because this house dared to heal zaxun.. WHO LITERALLY IS THEIR ONLY ASSET against damn near the entirety of the dream.

So far so good right ? So now lets say the people in the new house are like hey, this kind of sucks we want to quit this alliance. In fact they were under the impression that the alliance was over until the house opened and one of the first things they're told is "ah yeah really we're still allies with him" And when asked the leader cannot give an answer as to why it even exists. The ones supporting zaxun also have tasks from zaxun. The lowlies dont scream support. except for the odd one.

So we come to last night when everyone attacks a house defended by a 3rd sphere, a 4th sphere just returned with hardly any gear. a member of a bad boy band and a guardian who mb's and hides when the action starts, completely unresponsive.

So what strategy is the only option ? "well lets stay in here and wait"

ok fine but then all of a sudden high level.. lets call them turdholes.. enter the house, take the essences and take/destroy gear left behind by some who needed pack space to collect esses just to try to get a speck of power. . and also leave a nice mocking codex to rub it in. While the 3rd and 4th sphere can only watch. one tries to speak up, float him hes a troublemaker after all.. daring to think his house was his own.

Finally well after the damage is done zaxun comes and they actually fight the real enemy for a brief time. also be certain not to resolve anything because then they wouldn't be able to do it again in a few days. Yeah it's great fun.
Last edited by kendo on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is a boundary to men's passions when they act from feelings; but none when they are under the influence of imagination. -Edmund Burke

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Arnaya
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by Arnaya »

kendo wrote:
Whats the incentive of the vast percentage of the houses on the other side? well because they're such quality roleplayers they'll make their own. Even so much as to go up to the new houses facade and start a fight and then declare war because this house dared to heal zaxun.. WHO LITERALLY IS THEIR ONLY ASSET against damn near the entirety of the dream.
Unfortunately on this one.... the visitors didn't start the fight. They were waiting on Sharque, or Maxtra to say something. Zaxun literally ordered people off the facade, and while they were looking to the actual house people present, Zaxun started attacking. Now, I do COMPLETELY understand the frustration with everything and I am personally sorry that things have gotten that rough for players involved in the KoES roleplay. There are however a few ways out for most of the characters involved... that don't involve demoting.

Quite a few of the controllers on the other side of things from KoES have been going out of their way to avoid just pounding the lower sphere KoES members into the floor as well, but I know that isn't a huge consolation and doesn't help ease the frustration at all. All I can say is that I'm sorry this is as frustrating as it is, and take a breath... look at things from a different angle. You might find some ways to help ease things a bit :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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kendo
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by kendo »

You're one of my favorite people in the dream Arnaya.. but visitors implies you came to visit. Visitors don't art up at the portal when entering a friendly facade. Give us some credit, you came here to fight. We know because we see it over and over.

I have no love for zaxun but proudly stand beside Dina and her decisions. If zaxun "visits" we dont end up collapsed and have war declared on us. No thats only when you guys "visit." Zaxun doesnt sneak in to steal our essences, steal what they can and break the rest leaving a snarky codex. Every time we try to break from him you guys decide to come have your romp and we're forced to seek help. I walked onto the facade twice without a crest to try to talk and aileron and my good friend magnum who has thanked me again and again for chaks ive given him immediately attacked and collapsed me. So your words are nice but we go by the chak-burns
Last edited by kendo on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:25 am, edited 5 times in total.
There is a boundary to men's passions when they act from feelings; but none when they are under the influence of imagination. -Edmund Burke

“Who needs sports stardom when you can shoot fireballs from your fingertips?”
― Ethan Gilsdorf
Tary
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by Tary »

I don't typically respond to these sorts of posts for loads of reasons, but in this case my character is actually stirring the pot and trying to sow the seeds of discontent at KoES so I feel compelled to answer.

People in general have this aversion to pretending. They focus on literally one piece of the game mechanic -- fighting with chakrams and arts -- and ignore the fact that we're playing a game of make-believe. Is it so hard to just pretend? Make it dramatic, make it fun, make it interesting. Send an e-mail to roleplaying@ and tell them your make-believe pretend plan or don't e-mail them and go ahead and just try to have fun.

Examples of just pretending that can be fun:
  • Get a group of 5+ players to gather essences quickly, over an hour. Get a high-level forger to forge some cool looking talismans -- torches and the like. Lay them out in a spooky circle and chant. Then use RP Points to evoke FireStorm a bunch of times.
  • Try to use Revenant essences to accomplish something.
  • Bring a hunting party to Dorsal Rift and summon a past ruler of KoES.
I dunno, man, it's all pretend, just pretend.

We're so focused on accomplishing what we want within this very limiting box we've constructed around ourselves that we fail to remember one thing: we're all just making shit up. The other night I sent Tary, Purple Lace, Lu Chaos and Coraal on a breadcrumb mission of dropping single-charged codices to count the number of rooms from Edgeward to KoES. Why did I, Michael, do that? Because it was 2AM where I live, I had enjoyed some scotch, and I wanted to just do something more fun than "let's sit around Threshold and talk smack to one another." Don't wait for someone else to come up with some game of pretend: just do something different and fun and convince someone else to join you because they will, because they want to have fun too.

So you want to win the war, or get what you want, or drive out Zaxun, or become High Grand Poobah of the Keepers of the Calentured Light or whatever? Gather "items of great power" and do some grandiose show of trying to draw that power into your house via some ridiculous Rube Goldberg machine that you emote about. Above all make it contentious and active and fun.
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by Uthanatos »

Honestly, I agree it is a crappy situation, but you have to look at it from each perspective. With a character as polarizing as Zaxun, there ends up being no middle ground. Granted KoES members didn't realize when the house opened that they were going to be allied with Zaxun, they wanted to open the house based on principles that they believed in. I get that. When Uthy found out he was going to be accepted in to HC, he talked to Magnum-425 and I can quote what he said, I have it here in front of me, "Just know, Mags, that if we ever end up on opposite sides of the field, I will poison, curse and abjure the shit out of you, but there will be no malice in it". It's a statement that the characters should understand, wearing a crest means you are subject to things like wars, where you don't always get to choose what is right and wrong. Uthy has collapsed several low sphered members of KoES, although he tends to give warning before he does unless he's engaged with something bigger, because he doesn't WANT to collapse them, but he's obligated to. Yes, your work is gone, and people crap on your house, but politically the ruling body made poor decisions that left you there. It's up to Kendo to decide what the house is worth to him, is it worth the effort? Is it worth trying to wrest control of it from those in power? Is it worth sacrificing friendships and reputations? Each character has to decide how far they are willing to go for their convictions. The timing of opening KoES was, poorly planned, although from most characters perspectives, definately Uthy's, it looks like it was orchestrated by Lu and Lace to gain further support for Zaxun. Basically mate, everyone in the dream is sharing a big shit sandwich right now, most of KoES just got the dripping bits.
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
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kendo
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by kendo »

ONce again uthy and ive told you this before. I dont "decide" my beliefs I adhere to them. When and if I leave this house it won't be due to a veiled threat. I doesn't matter to me what magnum told you. I have never based my friendships on politics. i respect you as a dreamer, the night you started attacking was the night you couldnt protect arnaya you werent posturing and clenching your fists in thresh that night due to "obligation". Frankly the bottomline is, you created your war due to your inability to handle zaxun.

Continuing I find your "do whats right or else" mentality beneath you, brother. And the fact that youve floated low sphered koes isnt really something you should wear as a badge of honor. If I had massive numbers against a house of 2 I wouldn't see the only solution as floating them Heres something to add to your knowledge base, instead of collapsing low sphered dreamer with a magnanimous warnig. Talk to them and try to see their perspective. You might gain an ally instead of an enemy.

Your shit sandwich analogy is simply disturbing. Try maybe ham sandwich next time. Coprophagy is a condition you should take seriously, please seek help for this my friend, there can be a new tomorrow with a bit of self control.

Finally, if you're only willing to stay in your comfort zone in regards to your convictions, theyre not really convictions they're uncertainties.
There is a boundary to men's passions when they act from feelings; but none when they are under the influence of imagination. -Edmund Burke

“Who needs sports stardom when you can shoot fireballs from your fingertips?”
― Ethan Gilsdorf
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kendo
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by kendo »

Tary wrote:I don't typically respond to these sorts of posts for loads of reasons, but in this case my character is actually stirring the pot and trying to sow the seeds of discontent at KoES so I feel compelled to answer.

People in general have this aversion to pretending. They focus on literally one piece of the game mechanic -- fighting with chakrams and arts -- and ignore the fact that we're playing a game of make-believe. Is it so hard to just pretend? Make it dramatic, make it fun, make it interesting. Send an e-mail to roleplaying@ and tell them your make-believe pretend plan or don't e-mail them and go ahead and just try to have fun.

Examples of just pretending that can be fun:
  • Get a group of 5+ players to gather essences quickly, over an hour. Get a high-level forger to forge some cool looking talismans -- torches and the like. Lay them out in a spooky circle and chant. Then use RP Points to evoke FireStorm a bunch of times.
  • Try to use Revenant essences to accomplish something.
  • Bring a hunting party to Dorsal Rift and summon a past ruler of KoES.
I dunno, man, it's all pretend, just pretend.

We're so focused on accomplishing what we want within this very limiting box we've constructed around ourselves that we fail to remember one thing: we're all just making shit up. The other night I sent Tary, Purple Lace, Lu Chaos and Coraal on a breadcrumb mission of dropping single-charged codices to count the number of rooms from Edgeward to KoES. Why did I, Michael, do that? Because it was 2AM where I live, I had enjoyed some scotch, and I wanted to just do something more fun than "let's sit around Threshold and talk smack to one another." Don't wait for someone else to come up with some game of pretend: just do something different and fun and convince someone else to join you because they will, because they want to have fun too.

So you want to win the war, or get what you want, or drive out Zaxun, or become High Grand Poobah of the Keepers of the Calentured Light or whatever? Gather "items of great power" and do some grandiose show of trying to draw that power into your house via some ridiculous Rube Goldberg machine that you emote about. Above all make it contentious and active and fun.
Tary.. thats all good, but we we're TRYING to gather items of great power and TRYING to feed our prime despite agents of light like uthy hunting us down. These were STOLEN from us and destroyed last night. When enemies can enter your home and do as they please, its not so fun of a game. We cant gen or run to thresh how do you think we going to get a hunting party out ? This is doable for the other houses who hunt us down. We can barely depend on sharque going through with promises, do your think were going to trust vapor and witchcraft ? Look in our armory and see where it sits even after i personally gen up to 4 hours a day casting sense every 15 seconds.. Sounds like your parents lived in a comfortable neighborhood
Last edited by kendo on Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is a boundary to men's passions when they act from feelings; but none when they are under the influence of imagination. -Edmund Burke

“Who needs sports stardom when you can shoot fireballs from your fingertips?”
― Ethan Gilsdorf
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kendo
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by kendo »

who's next ?
There is a boundary to men's passions when they act from feelings; but none when they are under the influence of imagination. -Edmund Burke

“Who needs sports stardom when you can shoot fireballs from your fingertips?”
― Ethan Gilsdorf
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by Tary »

kendo wrote: ...snip...
We can barely depend on sharque going through with promises, do your think were going to trust vapor and witchcraft ?
...snip...
Sounds like your parents lived in a comfortable neighborhood
"Vapor and witchcraft" is all it is anyway. It's columns in a database, so why the hell does it matter if it's a chakram or a ceremony? Lighten up or don't, but if you can't take the time to be creative then why are you playing a role-playing game?

And they live in Brooklyn. Any other pot-shots you want to take at me, or should I call you out for your obvious inability to grasp the basics of punctuation?

Christ.
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by Koi-Shadow »

kendo wrote:It's like this.

A group of like minded dreamers get a house reopened, its in a very fragile state.
Zaxun is introduced, here's the first mistake, besides the timing, zaxun is so polarizing that everyone stands against him .

A potential way around this is to have him espouse the beliefs of one of the most active houses or use some sort of actual incentive so that the opposing sides are somewhat even. How NOT to handle it is to have the fledgling new house support him... oh wait they don't, just half of them do at first. So this new house is not only divided in half, but they have to face the rest of the city alone. So you say "well we let them do as they please here, let the chips fall where they may " So this little divided house, who's incentive btw is quality roleplay only. Perhaps some tasks zaxun can give but aren't at all useful to the lower housemates, in fact these tasks are to collect essences that further alienate said divided house..
When the GM team introduces a GM character, we do not completely script out all of their actions, what they are going to accomplish, who they are going to ally with, or anything like that. We come up with some character traits, their backstory, what their personality is like, and what their view/beliefs of the dreamstate is. Once we've done this, we introduce the character and let the environment of the game and his/her interactions with the players shape them. Zaxun is a bit unusual compared to the majority of our GM characters in the fact that most of his back story was available for all players to read via the posts on the Athenaeum of Dreams.

When Zaxun arrived, there was no plan in place for him to support KoES. That happened through roleplays initiated by the players. Several members who were seeking to open KoES accepted his offer to join his Vanguard. Zaxun did not force or encourage KoES members to aid him any more than he did any other house or freespirit, his offer was open to everyone.

In return for aiding Zaxun he has traded them essences for forging items, offering tasks, and creating the "mini-prime" that helped them open the house in a fraction of the time it would have taken to gather the energy needed otherwise. It does not appear anyone in KoES has been losing many orbits either, infact those that have been in Zaxun's party during battles have gained a few since the start of this roleplay. Just to clear up some potential confusion, Zaxun has not aided KoES with "Quality Roleplay" (QRP). You will need to seek that kind of aid else where.

The largest benefit they have received from Zaxun by being his ally is not having to fear him dreamstriking them. While everyone else has been constantly monitoring their recall and being afraid they could be dreamstruck, KoES members haven't had to fear this happening to them, very much anyway.

Has the aid he provided been worth the cost of some collapses? That is for your characters to decide and roleplay out. It could be that it is in their best interest to sever ties with him now that they are finished using the prime he gave them to open the house. Though, that could have negative consequences as well.

As for Xun'rok allowing players into the house last night, they did not realize there were items being stored in unsecured rooms. The rooms that players were allowed in are the very same ones that non-house members will be able to enter once the portals are patched for the house opening. Players have repeatedly been able to pass through the KoES and other unopened portals in the past. Other houses still have a couple single charge teleport items to allow them into the gathering hall of KoES from past roleplays as well which could have been used to do the exact same thing without any aid from Xun'rok. I would suggest using the essence room as other houses use theirs and only put "extra" items in it that you would not be too disappointed if they were stolen. There are quite a few items stored in the essence rooms of the houses that raided KoES's essence room if you would like to take some revenge.

There is probably a 9th sphere dreamer running around who could help you with this or gaining more revenant essences, but it sounds like you need to decide if his aid is worth the consequences of accepting it.
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Re: Fun Fun Fun

Post by Koi-Drama »

We often forget that this is a game and we should step back and examine it from a different angle. Underlight, the City of Dreams, is one of the most unique improvised environments on the internet. There are no singular point of views or some old aging author writing these scenarios in a scripted outcome. The reality of the situation is that we have many brilliant and talented authors and actors taking part in a unique story that has been expanding for over 15 years. We each contribute our stories to form a greater story filled with never ending dynamics and possibilities.

We are well aware of the trends that some players feel they are being singled out or targeted by the GMs. This is a story as old as Underlight itself, real or imagined. Over the years, I have learned that you can't please everyone because no matter how hard you try, someone is always going to feel slighted, jaded, or simply ignored. The Team that Wish and I have built over the last year or so is composed of some of the most dedicated and talented GMs I have ever had the pleasure to work with throughout my experience with Underlight.

We spend hours, often going back and forth, on discussing ideas, storylines, characters, development changes, and a myriad of other things. We do not get paid for any of this and we often remain on the receiving end of backlashes. Some entitled players feel the need to harass members of my team through Facebook, Skype, IRC, or via text messages and demanding answers and justification to issues. We have official channels. Please feel free to utilize them if you have any concerns, issues, or questions. We are operating on a purely volunteered formula. We hold each other accountable to our actions and no one is above 'the law' as they say. However, this non-sense with tearing each other on the forums needs to stop immediately through personal attacks and baiting tactics.

If there is an issue in the game, it should be handled in-character. The means of resolutions are endless and it is only the limitations of your imagination that seems to be impeding progress in the game. Let me offer some insight on a few things...

Zaxun - this character has been in existence since before Clash of Dreams went live. I've been developing this character's story, personality, and saga through a series of open-ended entries on the forums. There is a lot of things that were going on off scene but it all pointed to a very powerful complex character entering the city with an agenda in mind. For months, other supporting characters have been warning the city to prepare and be ready for him. Zaxun did not just suddenly appear out of thin air, some kind of mid-storyline replacement or filler. His timing was by design as we felt ready to proceed with his long awaited entry. A few players even went so far as to comment "Will Zaxun ever arrive in Underlight?"

Xun'rok - another character, like Zaxun, that was developed before Clash of Dreams went live. He was the 'other side' of the coin in the Lyran representation of the game. Lke Zaxun, I developed his story over the course of several months. He was not just some character convinced by a rookie GM to make their mark. Zaxun forced his way into the City of Dreams whereas other characters in the game were attempting to summon the legendary Templar. Again, nothing about this character was on the fly.

The Unlawful Breach - Let me make this clear. The argument that the Keeper's portals were closed therefore it was unlawful for Xun'rok to enter the Keepers is null. Calenture, the Light, and the Alliance all have opened portals into 'public areas' of their respective stronghold, including but not limited to, Gathering/Mustering Halls, Celebration/Ceremonial Halls, Patrol Rooms, Teaching Rooms, Ruler/Guardian Meeting Rooms, AND Essence Storage Rooms. The only thing setting the Keepers apart is simply a patch. The moment the Keepers stronghold was claimed and became active as a house - they became subject to the same standards. If you feel that utilizing out of character advantages for in-character purposes, you are in for a rude awakening.

Loss of Items - If, by some unimaginable stretch of the imagination, a GM character had wantonly 'breached' into a members-only area of a stronghold which resulted in the loss of items, I would be the first one sliding papers. However, for all intents and purposes, the Essence Room is a non-member areas and thus should be treated as such. Therefore, whatever arguments that followed will hold little to no weight.

The internal issues currently present within the KoES roleplay are unfortunate. However, there is a gross neglect of accountability present that I cannot go into details. However, Zaxun's involvement is the least of those issues and should not be utilized exclusively as any potential downfalls.

There are many possibilities to find resolution. There are many actions that can be taken that often are accompanied with reactions. And for the most part, that is entirely what is going on here. Cause and Effect.
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