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Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

This out of character forum is for discussion of roleplaying, how to roleplay and roleplay coordination.
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Roleplayer
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Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Roleplayer »

I will make this announcement brief and add to it as questions perhaps come up. We highly recommend that whilst in game you use Recall, Return, party members to Restore, leave the room... any means necessary to protect your character if you want it to not be Struck. You have been officially warned.
I understand to introduce the fear and the anxiety of the power of dreamstrike you needed background support. I respect your choices of introducing it in this fashion.
However, I have a question. There was a lot of abjuring from an invisible force. Will this continue?
We as players cannot fight, what we cannot see. We spend an enormous amount of precious time to build these characters, their levels. How do we fight?... when the game masters have total control and with a flick of a switch can remove these characters’ arts and make them vulnerable from being removed from the game. Can I get some thoughts on this?
I had recall on, I had 7 layered arts to back that up. I was stripped a few times by this invisible force on my alternate character, I could not fight. Players will take that personally, the power differential. This cannot be ignored as a response to how anyone would behave or respond. I respect you are looking for us to take it on chin, and not complain. I see this as many players leaving if we do not have a way to fight back, in character. The current role play was well thought out, intriguing and I believe it has and will attract more players. However, this thought nags me. Again, will that gm background our arts being removed, or moving forward will it be an in character player evoking those arts?
I love the current role play. I hope it attracts more to our servers.
Last edited by Roleplayer on Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." - Carl Jung
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Cherokee
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Cherokee »

Agreed. I like this current RP and I enjoy challenges in the game. Every time I log my character in the game, I understand there are always risks and this is the prime example of that. I know some players/characters shrug off fear, so there should be a fear factor to incite that. However, how can one fight against something they cannot see? There still needs to be a small chance left open for the players to defend themselves. Zaxun is a powerful dreamer wielding a dangerous weapon, but where are these unseen forces coming from? He's not a god. I'm all for an evil army to actually fight...just not ones in the shadows that we're unable to retaliate against.
23:48:24: Laviticas: (( I am going to ****ing say this now because I will not be back in the stupid game.)

22:44:20: >Jawsman evokes his own dreamquake, which is bigger than Magnilia's dreamquake.
Koi-Shadow

Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Koi-Shadow »

Having invisible characters evoking abjure on you when you are fighting someone with Dreamstrike is too much. That will not be happening again.

As both of you eluded to, there has been an unrealistic lack of fear in the game for quite some time. It was said in game by characters that they did not want to kill Agonarius yet because he was worth a lot of energy and dropped good items. Even with Zaxun, players knew he had the Mace of Castigation that has been used before to dreamstrike, and that Zaxun could singlehandedly turn the tide of a battle, but many did not seem to be very worried about this, possibly because they thought nothing would actually happen to their characters anyway.

Some examples from Zaxun's introduction:

00:03:12: >Dreamer A picks up a rock fron the ground and hurls it in Zaxun's general direction.
00:04:14: >Dreamer A glares at the man.
00:04:37: Dreamer A: Maybe you aught to try eating what your mace is coated in before you threaten others with it.
00:12:56: Dreamer A: I've already died once, Zaxun. You do not scare me
.
00:31:40: Dreamer B: Well, honestly...It wouldn't be our first dance with someone of your level of posturing. I doubt smashing all our heads in would do you much good.

00:32:48: Dreamer C: this is actually getting boring

00:40:29: Dreamer D: Zaxun, I'm just curious, but you know that old saying, you make your bed, you lie in it, right? Assembled here are dreamers who fought Tehthu, survived the variant collisons, and yes defeated Agonarius
00:41:19:Dreamer D: and regardless of the cost, you won't even be a footnote compared if you choose to be an ass
00:41:22: Dreamer D: it's your choice, make it wisely

00:41:36: Dreamer E: Tehthu was alot scarier than you, and your worm followers, and I collapsed him.
00:41:36: Dreamer E: It.
00:41:39: Dreamer E: Whatever.

00:49:49:Dreamer F: You will destroy noone today Zaxun
00:51:28:Dreamer F: I know what you threaten.
00:51:40: Dreamer F: And I stand here defiantly

00:52:45: Dreamer C: do something
00:52:56: Dreamer C: and i dont mean float
00:53:02: Dreamer C: because thats just boring
00:53:10:Dreamer C: either step up
00:53:10: Dreamer C: or move on
00:55:12: Dreamer C: exactly
00:55:22: Dreamer C: which means you wont do anything
0:55:34: Dreamer C: move on
00:55:36: Dreamer C: portal
00:55:38: Hey - someone just pushed you!

01:03:09: Dreamer G: you miss the fact that we CAN act with impunity
01:03:12:Dreamer G: this is our city

01:12:43: >Dreamer H pulls out a lolli, unwraps it and offers it to Zaxun
01:13:01: Dreamer H: dont choke on it

All of the above reactions are perfectly fine if you want to play a character who is brave and willing to die for what they believe in. They are your characters and play them however you like. But if your characters were only doing that because you as a player thought that nothing could really happen to them, you may want to rethink that approach. Zaxun can and will dreamstrike you.

I am worried that some of you will think that it might be "cool" or whatever to have your character dreamstruck and you will attempt to get Zaxun to dreamstrike you. That it would really add to the story and they will be remembered forever for their actions. Before doing this, I would encourage you to talk to some of the other players who have had their characters dreamstruck in the past. Several of them at the time allowed their character to get dreamstruck then later regretted it weeks later when they could no longer play the character they had grown attached to. It also does not seem to have the same reaction when players know OOC that you allowed it to happen.

I would encourage you to use recall and take whatever other precautions you can to avoid letting your character get dreamstruck. Magical ward traps are not going to appear around you while Zaxun teleports on top of you while you're afk genning. But if you find your character such as in the picture below, dreamstrike does take about 10 seconds to evoke. You better make sure it doesn't finish.

Image
Last edited by Koi-Shadow on Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Arnaya
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Arnaya »

Thank you Shadow. Your response is and clearing things up is appreciated. From what your saying, I take it that the "One swing and done" dreamstriking is done too and it will be an actual evoke that can be disrupted?
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
Koi-Shadow

Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Koi-Shadow »

Yes. And a 10 second evoke isn't going to be able to be used in the middle of a battle with people hitting/pushing/whatevering Zaxun.
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Arnaya
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Arnaya »

Thank you Shadow, I appreciate your openness in responding to questions... It alleviates a lot of the concerns game wise that I had about Dreamstrike being introduced (Well, Re-introduced I guess), and I imagine it will help alleviate some of the concerns other players have as well.

I do have 2 more questions for you as well, sorry.... I keep thinking of them as I go along.

1) Dreamstrike evoke: Is it a push type of evoke, where you have to be in blade range of the target... or more of a blast/poison/restore type of evoke where as long as your in the room, or in line of sight of the evoker, your a viable target? (If you can reveal that, I'm asking here because that sort of information is going to be nearly impossible to find out in game unless Zaxun is a complete idiot).

2) Is Dreamstrike going to be granted to players? (Again, if you can reveal it. Asking because of the history I was told about in my first 2 weeks playing).
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Arnaya
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Arnaya »

Lol Blade. Thank you for the targeting info, though the reason I was asking on the 2nd point is because I've heard quite a bit about it being used before and I know a few players are likely to have concerns about another dreamstrike rampage (Since I was told about that in my first two weeks of playing, people have long memories apparently lol) if players are to be allowed unrestricted access.

So, I guess I'm just trying to get all the cards out on the table so that the entire playerbase knows what's going on with an ability as... polarizing... as Dreamstrike. I'd rather not lose players because something wasn't clear or they didn't believe that their character was in any danger (No, I'm not on that list. Even if Arnaya is struck, I have two others that I can start running actively. No, not asking for Arnaya to be struck... but if it happens, it happens) :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Clarity »

One of the examples used above was a few things Clarity had said during the encounter. It was all bluster for RP's sake. As a player, I have absolutely zero want to be on the receiving end of a second strike, nor did I want to be struck the first time. It is not a fun experience, even IF you think it might be. I had the opportunity to transfer the life-time credit I had on Clarity the first time, and not only did I not transfer it over, I didn't return to playing at all. I had several characters I could have chosen from, and I had no ill feelings towards the folks who'd done it, but the loss of so much effort put in was enough to make me uninstall the game and walk away entirely. So if Dreamstrike is going to be a thing, I suggest folks take a long look at how attached to their character they are, and take precautions.

I suspect I'll likely be avoiding open combat with Zaxun on a player level, as best I'm able with out breaking character.
So it’s gonna be forever, and I will stay up through the night. You can tell me when it’s over, and let’s be clear, won’t close my eyes. @-;-
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by kendo »

as a newly returned I'm excited to have made it back in time for this but please don't forget the small guys. Since kendos return I haven't been able to gen properly due to some admitted forgetfulness but the other night after I'd painstakingly saved all of the lower end alts i'd need for an extended gen session I found chamele worked against not one single ago in harrow which basically led to a loss of the alts i'd saved and the loss of precious experience. Maybe I was genning over what one should at second sphere but I was able to gen everywhere when i played at 1st sphere and the gens aren't so spectacularly rewarding as to make them overpowered in any sense. I think the problem might lie in the tremendous drop off from gen quality in places i can access and those i cant.
What i'm getting at is i understand a lot of dreamers have basically godlike power at their disposal and the ability to stack etc but despite a burning desire to participate I'm also tasking like a maniac to improve If friends are being slaughtered I would be a poor rp'er to stay inside sanc, and my experience is very very precious.. solo hunting is my only option unless kendo fakes his beliefs to ally with a large group. I'm ready to float, as it makes perfect sense rp wise, my concern is losing any semblance of fun during my participation as ken will not stand idly by. Honestly I don't know how to fix this, but it's a major concern as far as seeing all the fun I'm having be taken. I think a happy medium of gen access would help.. or an area with weaker items only accesable by lower end dreamers. If I come across as whiny I apologize it's really not my intent.

Additionally the logs posted previous have got to be mind numbing to the devs. Seriously some people have zero awareness. Thanks to the devs for making an attempt of this magnitude though I'm sure its not an easy thing to put together especially when they're in basically a no win position.
There is a boundary to men's passions when they act from feelings; but none when they are under the influence of imagination. -Edmund Burke

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Arnaya
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Arnaya »

Ask Arnaya or Uthanatos, or any of a few others about that in game Kendo. We can give you a few tips for that :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Noidea »

I dunno. I think that, given that it is an IC fact (for whatever OOC reasons) that a lot of the dreamers of Underlight do have that "bring it on, I've seen it all, you can't touch me" attitude - given that that's the case, I think it makes perfect dramatic sense for them to have been all full of rousing speeches and bravado the first time they met Zaxun. (Clarity implies that she, for one, was doing it deliberately for just that reason.)

They should know better now :twisted: (Just make sure that you do demonstrate that, everyone. What I'm saying is that it wasn't really a problem for it to have happened like that the first time - but it'd be if it happened again that it would start to look silly, and very annoying for the GMs.)


A possibly obvious question, but I just want to be absolutely clear about this: You emphasised a lot that there will be "no OOC warning of Dreamstrike". There will be *IC* warning, correct? Nobody's going to get surprise-Dreamstruck by "an invisible force" for the sake of "building tension"? You'll know that you ARE in the presence of a Striker? Or at least (since I can see how sometimes you might want to keep people guessing about whether someone has the power or not), someone who's of unknown abilities (so that you have some reason to be suspicious) and is hostile.
I don't expect you would, since apart from being unfair (which is a thing people can have different ideas about) it wouldn't really have the intended effect - if you can't do anything to protect yourself from the threat, short of hiding in sanctuary all the time, characters couldn't really do anything except ignore it. But I wanted to check.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Uthanatos »

I know one of those examples was Uthy, and for his part, he isn't afraid of anything, he is cautious, and if he has to fight, he fights smart generally trying to avoid directly trading chak blows by moving around the plane, setting up ambushes, things like that. In a situation like that, Zaxun, being horribly outnumbered and knowing a lot of history but never really experiencing it, it's quite easy for him to laud the accomplishments of others. Anyone who's interacted with him in the past few days has seen what a blow failure is to his ego. As far as I'm concerned, the warning has been given, yes people will inevitably forget to art up, but in general I recommend taking the extra four minutes to stack up hours worth of recall when you first enter the thresh. I haven't experienced this cross plane crashing people talk about, and I've recalled cross plane twice. I would hope that from a GM standpoint they would hold back on dreamstrike in the case of ward traps and things like that, but if they don't, shit happens and we were warned.
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Koi-Wish »

One additional point to make here, as subtle yet as don't test it as I can:

Zaxun is not going to be trying to Strike dreamers. Don't mistake this RP to imply he is hunting you down to kill your character.

Theoretically the whole RP could last 3 months and Zaxun never strikes anyone.

Use RECALL. This is the most powerful art you have against DreamStrike. If it gets Abjured, leave. Once your character is collapsed, Paralyze and other arts can no longer affect your character, this is your opportunity to leave. There are very few rooms that it takes more then 10 seconds to get out of. And even then, your assuming the moment you're collapsed Zaxun will evoke DreamStrike. However floating around taunting, or otherwise leaving yourself in danger is at your own risk.

Their have been two dramatic bad guys in the City since our release of UnderLight. Agonarius, and his threat was to increase the power of the (pmare) minions around him. And now Zaxun, his threat is an invasion (as yet to be seen but very soon) and he himself having the ability to DreamStrike. This isn't like a darkmare, or Zero, or Lu Chaos, Horrons, or any other form of bad guy. This is an example of an "end-game" boss. Treat him accordingly.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Noidea »

Blade, or Wish - Can I take that as a "no, there will be no surprise Strikings out of nowhere"? Blade, is that just you giving your guess or do you speak for the GMs? I'm never sure.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Koi-Wish »

I am not sure how to answer that, I thought we already had. What you just said is the absolute opposite of what we have been saying.

As stated, if you float, and you're in the same room as Zaxun.... you could be struck.

You shouldn't be surprised because we told you it could happen.

All I was saying is, Zaxun isn't going to be actively hunting and collapsing dreamers with pure intent to Strike them.

But if you float, and your in the same room, and Zaxun has opportunity, your character could be struck.

The short answer: LEAVE the room if you float. Zaxun will Strike you if you hang out.

That help?
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Noidea »

No! Read my original posting carefully. What I'm saying is: can I be Struck if Zaxun (or at least, some other GM-looking character of unknown capabilities) is NOT in the room? Might a dreamer get Struck out of nowhere by an "invisible force" or something else that they had no way of expecting just to keep people on their toes? That's what I meant by "surprise Striking"!
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by FrigginAwesome »

No, you will not be dreamstruck by an invisible force. You'll have a chance to see the evoke coming, and run.

I can't speak with the authority of the GMs, but I can't possibly ever see the GMs dreamstriking someone with an invisible force, without that person's prior arranged permission.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Koi-Wish »

There is absolutely no chance of being Struck by an invisible GM. I guess after Shadows post above I am surprised asking if Invis GMS were going to be Striking was even asked, I apoligize for misunderstanding.

Unless your a razorchicken then you could be Struck at anytime. If you have to ask what that is, your not one.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Noidea »

OK! Thank you. Sorry about that, just you put so much emphasis on the "no warning" that I wanted to be 100% sure about that! :D I didn't think the GMs would do that as it seemed to me an unreasonable thing to do and I trust you to be aiming to be reasonable - but it's not always wise to assume that I have the same idea of what's reasonable as someone else!

I'm sure the razorchickens are grateful for your warning, whatever they are :mrgreen:
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by fr3y »

Frey's meeting with zaxun was so surreal, i can't believe leaving the room never occured to me. Even though it was my first time ever in the palisades I should have thought of that.

I hate to admit it but given the opportunity again I'd much rather have taken the cowards way out and just woke.

I'll be watching this thing play out with my' fingers crossed. It looks like we're nearing resolution Good luck everyone.
11:11:28: Purple Lace: Frayed logic
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Dina »

Yeah yeah yeah, use Recall. You can say that all day long, but Zaxun abjures and guess what????

He abjures it off or as being an SM....Dina abjures her own off due to Reflect! Not long ago, Zaxun kept abjuring Dina, that's when Dina just stood there letting him float her since the Recall was not abjured off for a change lol.
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Arnaya
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Arnaya »

Arnaya's taken to carrying Negative Dreamsoul elems sometimes, just for that type of situation Dina ;)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Uthanatos »

Uthy's group reorganization...

Step 1) Get floated, recall off the plane, breaking your group because you are the leader.

Step 2) Use Guild House Art, run back the long way to avoid wards.

Step 3) Set recall locally.

Step 4) Walk out into the battle allowing your group to automatically reform.

Step 5) Leap in front of any blue projectiles you see....one of them will float you.
“Sometimes it isn't easy to be sane, smart, and responsible. Sometimes it sucks. Sucks wang. Camel wang. But that doesn't turn wrong into right or stupid into smart.”
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Lu Chaos »

Is waking from a dreamstrike taking the cowards way out? Or is that just being smart as hell and not losing your character? *shrugs* You're undefeated until you die, so i'd rather stay undefeated and live than losing a character to someone who doesn't deserve to take out my character.. Just the way I think.
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Re: Questions about dreamstrike and role playing

Post by Inzoum »

The way I see it, waking as a soulsphere is a perfectly viable and founded escape solution. Keep in mind that each time you're collapsed, the game informs you that waking in this state would cause severe shock to your soul. There's an XP penalty in place and an IC context for it. Whether it's the coward's way out is a debate on personality and character, but either way, it's an acceptable way out. My advice on this would be to live to see another day, but use this opportunity to roleplay your actions! Be all shaky and unsettled when you step back into Threshold, make that shock to your soul apparent and give something others to work with story wise to justify your actions.
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