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MT Rules

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Dina

MT Rules

Post by Dina »

In IRC I was told you have to have the majors at 50 and also 5 minors at 50 and only 2 dreamsoul arts count as 1 minor and you can't use any more than the 2. Now, Kailee is not a teacher, but I wanted to bring this up.

Kailee has all majors and minors at 50 and a few dreamsoul arts and if she uses the 2 dreamsoul arts, she only comes up with only 4 minors and not being able to get that last minor point. FS' minors are scare, deafen, and trail, so there is 3, then count 2 dreamsoul arts and that give you 4. So how would that work for FS?

For SM's, they have so many arts because of the imprison, banish, cleanse, and drain. Well drain is a minor I guess. Do they have to count the imprison, banish, and cleanse? That would go against beliefs in the game. Forcing an SM to use an art she or he doesn't believe in and is against it. I know you can use "curse", but it is still raising an art that is against their beliefs.

One more thing. What about 6th sphere arts? I heard Combine counts? Why? It is a 6th sphere art. What about Vampire Draw? It is a 6th sphere art. I don't see how those would count.

I am just asking for clarification. I tried to get answers in game and I don't see Akk very often. Dina went from only needing 2 arts platted to like....many. I thought all dreamsoul arts would count so another 2 would give her another point for minors, so she would just need two plats then qualify, if the essence manipulation arts don't count.

This all confuses me. I know you want to make it harder to get, but sheesh...this is confusing and discouraging! Please HALP me understand!!!!!
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Butterfly
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Re: MT Rules

Post by Butterfly »

I was told that a lot of the higher sphere arts were exempt.

I agree that we need clarification, each time I ask, there are different answers.
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Koi-Shadow

Re: MT Rules

Post by Koi-Shadow »

Sorry for the delay in response. We're currently discussing a lot of the points you mentioned in your post. The current rules posted do not mention anything about trading Dreamsoul arts for the minors, or how many, so that is causing some confusion when you guys are getting different answers from different people. Right now, Gatekeepers definitely have the easiest time in meeting the current requirements compared to the other focuses, which doesn't seem very fair.

I would like to ask the community for some feedback to help our discussion:

Should MTs represent those teachers which have the highest arts and train level so people know they can plateau their arts higher than regular teachers? Or should MTs represent who are the "best" teachers and write the most engaging tasks, even if they can't plateau trail to 50?
Dina

Re: MT Rules

Post by Dina »

My thoughts on it are different really. Someone that is a crappy teacher can still have a high train, they may not even give out many tasks, while someone with a lower train may have given out tons of tasks, students always going back to that teacher too. I do think there needs to be a requirement though. I just think the current one is just a bit much.

Dina spends most of her time writing tasks and also listening to tasks, so she really doesn't give much time to her own.

Kailee has 7 majors and Dina has 11 if you count the essence arts (banish, imprison, and cleanse).
OfF KiLTeR
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Re: MT Rules

Post by OfF KiLTeR »

I think the term Master Teacher is somewhat muddled. When the Master Teacher role was implemented way back when with the double halo, the requirements were a train of 20 or 30 and had to be recognized by a house (one per focus) or by a Lyran for the Freespirit community. The dream has evolved since then, which I get, but I think we have some opportunities to have a positive impact on the dream itself.

I think the first thing that either the Teaching team, or the teachers themselves need to consider is what are we trying to accomplish with the role? If it's to decrease the burden on the teaching elders, then it should be going to those with the highest train. That's simple.

However, I see an opportunity for something a little more. I think that the Master Teacher status should go to those who are truly the best teachers, not those with the highest train or the most plateaus. I think the Master Teacher role should be held by those who do the most to keep the dream rolling when there is no conflict to be found. Right now we're in a constant battle for something to "do" in the dream. Be it a roleplay, a story, an event or war, fighting mares etc... Those teachers who work towards inspiring action that others can be involved in are really the key asset in the dream when there are no elders around. Roleplay is 99% of the dream, and having those teachers help other players put together something that the rest of the players can interact with is a big part of what keeps us all going. I have no problem with plateau factories, as they appeal to a niche of dreamers who are collectors of titles/abilities/influence, etc.

I also thing that the Master Teachers should be able to train in the art of train, and plateau the art up until the 3rd plateau (at the very least.) This frees up a lot of restriction as well as allows master teachers to teach what they should be the best at: teaching dreamers. I would like to clarify, I do not mean training dreamers in an art, but rather drawing out the creative side of each dreamer to carve out their own little niche in the dream. I think that the Master Teacher role should be those who reflect the desire to draw those qualities out of each other. The fact is, we are no longer a group of gamers in our late teens and early twenties. Many of us are now in our mid to late 30's (I am not EVEN saying how old I am...) and I think that we are putting a lot of restriction on dreamers who are in a different stage of our lives. Perhaps we stop looking at a set of hard-fast rules, and start looking at a philosophical approach to the role.

Perhaps there should be two different roles: Master Trainer, and Master Teacher? Maybe we could have THREE halos?!?

I digress.

I find teaching to be one of the key elements of Underlight and integral to our community by keeping each other inextricably tied to one-another. Finding a way to recognize those who make the dream a more exciting (or at least interesting) place to be should be where we focus our resources...
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Arnaya
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Re: MT Rules

Post by Arnaya »

As I understand....

From what I understand of how the MT's and Teachers work, I would personally suggest that the MT's have requirements along the following.... since they can self train with "mini-quests".... which as far as I'm concerned should be pretty basic stuff, along the lines of a learn quest at the toughest.

- Minimum sphere: 5 (Just because of the fairly high level of a lot of players)
- Minimum Train: 40
- Focus Art: 40+
- Other Arts: Focus Blade & Flame - 40+; Two other focus arts at 40+; At least one focus art from each sphere at 30+ (including the two previous arts); At least three Dreamsoul arts at 30+; All arts available learned

This is just from looking at the general art levels and needs that I've seen/heard in game and what seems to make sense given that. As for whether the MT's should be the best questers or just the ones with the highest train/arts.... Honestly, I'd say that MT's have to be the most balanced teachers around. Basic criteria beyond arts should be: Flexible questing style, Role-play advancement ability, and development of the Teachers Roleplay.

They kind of seem to be like mentor types for other teachers, as well as powerful characters and impressive teachers.... so I don't think Arts and train levels should be the main determining factor. That could open up more of the perceived "This person got all of this because they're the GM's Favourite"... but that seems to happen a lot no matter what *shrugs*.

Closing: I don't play a teacher character, and I don't really know what all's going on behind the scenes. These are just some of my thoughts about the topic, take it for what it is please :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
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Dakkoth
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Re: MT Rules

Post by Dakkoth »

Short response...

Saying one teacher is better than another and using that as the criteria for MT is subjective and ripe for abuse.

Best to leave it as high train high art level as a feat of accomplishment and trust that in the path of getting up that high, their teachers GM or otherwise have done due diligence in making sure the player is well educated and versed in the trade.

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Sidas
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Re: MT Rules

Post by Sidas »

I think there should be a combination of requirements:

One being a fairly reasonable set of level requirements, similar to the current requirements but perhaps not as stringent.

The second would be motivation of the potential MT to actually utilize the status of MT. We've had far too many MTs that just get the halo and wear it around, making minimal efforts to RP the station or plateau their arts using Train Self. Not to mention the relative failure of mentoring (3 new teachers via MTs when we've had more than 10 different MTs thus far).

I feel like the combined effect there would create a system that works more. Especially if we could add more ways to have the status stripped, i.e. not "progressing" the station. For instance: logging in to just reset timers, never using train self, or just ignoring the IC responsibilities of MTs.

In any case, I feel that we're on the right path of not having the Houses be solely responsible for deciding MTs, however, I do believe there should be an accommodation for every House to have one. Perhaps have a lower set of standards for a House to nominate a teacher for MT, with the expectation that those MTs are to raise their art levels as fast as possible.
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Dakkoth
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Re: MT Rules

Post by Dakkoth »

Sidas wrote:I think there should be a combination of requirements:

One being a fairly reasonable set of level requirements, similar to the current requirements but perhaps not as stringent.

The second would be motivation of the potential MT to actually utilize the status of MT. We've had far too many MTs that just get the halo and wear it around, making minimal efforts to RP the station or plateau their arts using Train Self. Not to mention the relative failure of mentoring (3 new teachers via MTs when we've had more than 10 different MTs thus far).

I feel like the combined effect there would create a system that works more. Especially if we could add more ways to have the status stripped, i.e. not "progressing" the station. For instance: logging in to just reset timers, never using train self, or just ignoring the IC responsibilities of MTs.

In any case, I feel that we're on the right path of not having the Houses be solely responsible for deciding MTs, however, I do believe there should be an accommodation for every House to have one. Perhaps have a lower set of standards for a House to nominate a teacher for MT, with the expectation that those MTs are to raise their art levels as fast as possible.
I agree that a combination is needed. Although mandating high level arts and then mandating the use of Trainself may be contradictory. Also, who decides if the station is being progressed? Is their a limited amount of MTs? Too many may clog the system and limit other MTs. These are things to think about.

I liked the idea someone mentioned earlier about MTs training Train. Not to ordain a teacher alone but at least to handle plateaus. I think this concept should be greatly tied to MTs and give them more purpose and influence in teaching of teachers.

~Mike
Dina

Re: MT Rules

Post by Dina »

I agree with Sidas. Making sure at least each house has one would be good. Due to house arts needing to be worked on. Dina is tired of only having a 9 Sable Shield!

Master Teachers should have some extra perks, perhaps what was talked about before. Being able to help plat train would be nice.
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Re: MT Rules

Post by Sidas »

Dakkoth wrote: Although mandating high level arts and then mandating the use of Trainself may be contradictory.
That's because I consider using Train Self to be more important than the high level arts. At least until all of the arts are high level, I suppose. ;)
OfF KiLTeR
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Re: MT Rules

Post by OfF KiLTeR »

Dakkoth wrote:Short response...

Saying one teacher is better than another and using that as the criteria for MT is subjective and ripe for abuse.

Best to leave it as high train high art level as a feat of accomplishment and trust that in the path of getting up that high, their teachers GM or otherwise have done due diligence in making sure the player is well educated and versed in the trade.

~Mike
The only problem I have with high level is that people will eventually gain said high level and then expect to simply be given the Master Teacher station. Then you end up with a subjective battle anyways because a dreamer will say "my arts and train are higher than so and so's ,so I should have MT status." Entitlement is a problem already.
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Arnaya
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Re: MT Rules

Post by Arnaya »

That was kind of where I was going with my comments at the bottom of my suggestion. It happens in EVERY game (that I’ve played anyway) that has players holding any responsibility in game. If anyone's found a solution to it yet, I havn't come across it yet. Its kind of the nature of Roleplaying games.

Each of our characters is the "Hero" of their own story, and everyone wants their characters to have the neatest toys and all that. Particularly in MMO style RPG's (even play by forum and browser based ones). Tabletop RPG's are a bit different, just because its a small group usually with each characters role carefully defined to fit in with the others in the group, but not a huge amount. Everyone still wants their characters to have the status and toys and whatever.

With this game being so in depth roleplay wise, and having such a focus on roleplaying.... that kind of has to be considered as criteria for characters that fill the role MT's do. Level and all of that has to be given some consideration, but really can't be the only measure IMHO. Again, just some thoughts from someone on the outside of the issue looking in :)
The most important lesson I've learned over this past year, is not to let anyone make you cruel. No matter how badly you want to give the world a taste of it's own bitter medicine, it is never worth losing yourself.
cooki
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Re: MT Rules

Post by cooki »

While I didn't read all of these posts, nor do I play nearly enough to play an MT again (or wish to), there really was not enough incentive before. It was often seen as a status symbol, and teachers did it without having to do anything after the fact (this was a hard stereotype to break back then and likely still is).

Anyway, getting MT status seems more difficult now too, and still not much incentive. The train self is not a good resource if you are not around with many other teachers with said arts.

As for SMs needing all arts to a certain point (back to the original post): essence arts were left off the list before, and still should be.

Sorry for the rant or if I made no sense, my brain is fried.
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